Is Ontario Soccer finally going to stop the OPDP? (con't)? (comments open)
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[Hypocritical] b randing rules : " except for sponsorship branding " " sponsor may not be a soccer club, which is not recog...
The issue here is the unfair exclusion of small and rural club youth soccer teams prevented from competing on equal footing, and at every level, with 7 large clubs (OPDP) because of their disagreement with academies.
ReplyDeleteOPDP is continuing in the Summer. Messages have been sent to club members that the game days are Sundays... which obviously means that OPDP continues.
ReplyDeleteWhich clubs are in or excluded? That was not clear from the messages.
I hope nobody gets excluded, St. Anthony Futuro and Hotspurs are clubs that should be in this league.
If anyone has copies is the messages that were sent out, those should be forwarded to Ontario Soccer and the CSA, because while OS turned a blind eye this past summer, it will be more difficult for them do so again after having gently warned those 8 clubs that they can't exclude other clubs.
DeleteAfter decades of official policy by the governing soccer body of coaxing and pressuring rural & small (not-for-profit) community teams to join/cooperate/amalgamate with large clubs; as soon as extremely talented/ELITE community teams from rural and small clubs (through inter-club cooperation/amalgamation or simply their own sweat & hard work) make it to the Top level, 2nd level, etc. (all levels of competition for that matter); these OPDP bully clubs turn around and purposely exclude these talented teams, put up new artificial barriers, collude, give muted responses, ignore, impediment, delay, dis-inform, manipulate rules, conceal participation, etc. all tactics to prevent, what they perceive as "unfair competition". Ask them why none of the 2018 OPDP league schedules will be public? Ask why they will reprimand you if you forward those emails (to fairnessinottawasoccer@gmail.com) showing their schedules?
DeleteAdditionally when uncovered and reported of hiding a league in 2017; they stacked by majority the board of the governing soccer association with their paid or unpaid staff, effectively taking it over. Now, if you happen to meet and greet their reps they will give you their victim speech, they will tell you they are being unfairly treated and targeted by private (small business) academies or small/rural clubs that (allegedly) don't pay their fair share for local soccer development. And will add that they have a right to play selective Exhibition Games (and they do), but which also means THEY ARE NOT PLAYING AGAINST THE BEST. They selectively exclude others kids. We (parents) choose what is best quality or quantity for our kids’ education to face the real world --schools, driving, painting, music, dance, arts, economics, sciences, stuff, everything, etc. So, buyer (parent) beware of false advertisement when it comes to soccer. This is my customer review of the OPDP for google search indexing.
Let it be clear (as we have said from the very beginning), no one is asking for special favors, a hand out, or even token representation at any level! Even the most elitist organizations have PUBLIC entry prerequisites! These clubs were perfectly happy to compete under one league for years against rural or small clubs; and got beaten. So to them we ask: cease this continued up cover-up in 2018, bring back your best and meet ALL of us fair and square on the field! Is this not a reasonable thing to ask?
It's not a league. Just a few friends playing exhibition games against each other. No harm. No foul. If Futuro wants to play exhibition games, all they have to do is ask.
DeleteAnonymous 31/1/18 <- You have a low opinion of parents' (paying customers) intelligence and common decency.
DeleteIf those poor kids aren't playing in a league, I guess no one should have any objections if other clubs are able to find a team for them.
DeleteI'm a parent of an OPDP club as well. My experience with OPDP was overall positive. Realistically, in Ottawa from u9-u12 there are only a few teams that field good teams: Cumberland, OSU, WOS, Futuro and in some age groups Hotspurs. Futuro was excluded from this league for reasons that I shouldn't speculate about, because I don't know what went on backstage. As for the league itself, it was what you'd expect from the previous ERSL, the games were on Sundays, which I thought was great, saves me alot of grief driving in rush hour to go watch my kid play, the referees were better for sure, no more 12 year old kids who never played the game and who took a ref course the previous weekend.
DeleteStronger teams got to play each other more often, which is good as well.
About excluding rural clubs, in my experience rural clubs (Russel, Smith Falls, Cornwall, Fitzroy, etc) never produced any decent teams, and if there is a good player from those teams, the parents are smart enough to bring them to an Ottawa club. That's been my experience in last 4-5 years, I've never seen anything different. To claim somehow that there's so much talent in those teams is simply not true. In the past, before OPDP, those games always ended in large blowouts 10-0, 8-1, etc.
The only thing missing in OPDP is Futuro! I totally agree with their parents on this. Futuro teams always brought a bit of flair and technique, the parents always labelled those games as El Classicos, and the kids were always looking forward to them. It's a tragedy if they're not included in this year's OPDP.
Sanjeev and OPDP clubs should sit down and agree on something. But I fear the mutual animosity is too deep and I'm not holding my breath on it. We would love to see Futuro in this league.
In my experience, Seaway Valley was generally one of the more decent teams (as far as making it a competitive game, more so through being aggressive) and I think they should also be included.
DeleteAs a Futuro parent, to be honest, I really don't care whether we play against OSU, WOS, Cumberland, etc. or not. Given the state of the ERSL DDL currently, it's in non one's interest to play in this league and I would be just as happy if they would simply let the Futuro teams play in the Outaouais league. If OS is willing to go along with this charade that is the OPDP, then at least have the courtesy to let the excluded teams play elsewhere.
No one is taking away from anyone where the good teams are. To suggest that this blog is about management of “the league” it is not. This is about the principle: no one should be excluded. I am not talking about Futuro, I didn’t even know they existed until fate or rather OPDP myopic strategy made friends of otherwise unlikely allies. Like I said from the very beginning, I know of one relatively new team, one simple non-academy team you probably haven’t’ heard of, who would have blown your mind off with how good they are, but were left out. Exclusion at the hand of a whim rather than process, will only lead to corruption and under-handedness. If the CSA, OS, the soccer community really wants to show case the best of the best against international opponents this is not the way to go. We should instead be celebrating and capitalizing from “El Classicos” (as anonymous said), Ottawa style!
DeleteIf there is a problem of quality, there are solutions the “Old Guard” hasn’t or will not consider. But the discussion needs to take place at the table, not on an anonymous blog and much less at the whimsical decision of an oligopoly of clubs. If some want to go LeagueA-Level1 and others to League1-LevelA why not try it. If the current “unsanctioned” momentum is any indication, and say you add 33% from the current (non-opdp) 49.90% membership voting clubs, it’s the OS and CSA who have a lot to lose in control and numbers. Yeah, yeah you won’t have the OPDL pathway… my kids is not going to be a Giovinvo, much less a Messi either, but they will get a fair and equal opportunity to try. For now however, like it or not, kids are being excluded. No two ways about it!
Now, about false advertisement when they purposely exclude excellent teams (league or picnic bar-b-q), don’t tell me that yours is the SUPREME-PREMIER-EL-JEFE-CHAMPIONS-LOYAL-BLUE-BLOODED-CARD-CARRYING-SHOWCASE-ULTIMATE-INFINITE-ELITE best! Heck, if there is something to learn from real life is that people can complain about simple things as price fixing in bread and have found wrong-doing. What do you think can happen with false advertisement? Is your club ready to risk that? So yes, when it comes to a service (paid service for that matter) you bet I will get my Showcase of Champions --indexing wedge-- panties 10 at a time bundled and warmed up. And I do have a problem losing to OPDP league fixing, lying, hiding, colluding, dishonest, exclusion of teams at a whim; as in in real life, let clubs/organizations/business of any size fail or succeed on their own.
I am a parent of a player at an OPDP club.
ReplyDeleteIn the summer 2016, our team won all of its games with scores like 10-1. 100% of games against small/rural clubs. Not good for either team.
In the summer of 2017, within OPDP, scores were tight, never much more than 2-3 goals difference at best.
Is the OPDP the answer, I don't think so given all the arguments brought up in this blog. Do I have the magic solution, No. But again, it's not like we chose this, we went to our local club and we would not consider changing it regardless.
We are talking about kids barely 12 years old, where this should be about fun. If you want your kid to be a Pro (a bit of a pipe dream for almost 99% of U12 and under kids) you should make sure he/she is still having fun by the time he arrives at U13, where the real stuff begins. This sort of parent infighting, where really none of us is making decision about how the leagues operate, is not constructive and does not show the true spirit of this beautiful game. Don't get your panties in a bunch, think what is the reason your "child" is playing and go along for the ride.
Discussions are fine, trying to improve is fine, choosing where you spend your money is fine, but please don't put all parents in the same basket, some of us understand or choose to see that this is a game.
I hope you all have a good summer season and hopefully our kids play against one another, within the same skill level.
I think this will vary by year and age group. My kids are older than the OPDP age groups now, but when they were at those age groups, they used to beat the teams from the current OPDP clubs (with the exception of maybe 2 teams) by anywhere from 5 - 20 goals regularly. Having close games can be achieved in one of two ways: 1) limit it to stronger teams; or 2) exclude stronger teams. Given that the only tier one teams that have really been excluded are Futuro and SV, I think the OPDP clubs' strategy has been #2 and that your scores this summer were closer for other reasons.
DeleteThat's the whole thing, Futuro should reach it to the clubs to come to an understanding. For those who do not know though, Futuro have been playing in the EODSA winter league (U9-U10). Their U11 and U12 teams would not have been able to play the stronger teams, as the stronger teams are in the Polar Bear League.
ReplyDeleteThis was brought up in the thread early on - when the 7 clubs originally thought they would be allowed to openly run OPDP as a league, Futuro/St. Anthony had sought to play. The OPDP "rules" were changed three times because St. Anthony unexpectedly met the "rules" that were being set. So it has nothing to do with Futuro not approaching these clubs. One executive from one of these clubs, when told that they had to open the exhibition games up to all clubs, said that's fine, but that his club won't play against Futuro.
DeleteI have heard from parents with kids in OPDP who were quite dissatisfied with playing Sunday games. Personally, I would prefer Sunday games, but I think it really depends on how one's schedule works. Driving all over the city on a weekday evening is not very convenient for us. Sunday evening avoids much traffic which is a better use of everyone's valuable time.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of playing tournaments only is also not going to fly with many families that have cottages. Canadian soccer development is impacted by 2 things: hockey (though multiple sports is good, hockey takes priority 100% for many in winter), and cottages (summer is short, weekends are valuable). If you want more kids hooked on soccer, you need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.
I don't see how OPDP games can be much better than ERSL T1 was prior. Same teams less a couple rural ones and Futuro. So you lose at least 1 very strong team to play against and perhaps some weaker ones. Tier is voluntarily chosen by the club with no promotion and relegation for U9-12, so it really is kind of foolish for a program to put a weak team in T1 as it is unfair for the kids to get smashed week after week. Many rural programs get that.
I have watched some polar bear league games this winter, and to be honest, the quality was not spectacular (to be generous). These are the same teams playing the same way they used to (with 3 OSU teams out of 8 in each boys league). As a Futuro parent, I understand that what matters most is what happens in training. Kids like the games. It's unfair that the best kids get excluded from playing the best kids (this goes both ways when you exclude a program - OSU Black kids deserve to play Futuro kids!). In the end though, I wouldn't change anything because my kids like the training, style, and passion that Futuro represents.
The concepts behind OPDP are fine and could even result in a better league (having all teams from a program playing on the same group of fields such that the TD's can observe and converse). The ERSL was looking to implement that for T1 anyway. The exclusionary aspect is not fine. It is being done to self-serve some adults with an agenda (in some cases a paid agenda) at the expense of the kids. Everyone should be unhappy with that!
I have been saying this for years - that the self-selection process is useless when clubs act in their own interests and disregard what is best for the kids (which can vary from age group to age group, within a club). I can think of one clubs who forced a certain team into tier 1 (which itself included a number of what I consider to be weak teams) - this particular team would lose most of their games by between 10 - 20 goals and everyone felt horrible for these kids afterwards. But the club thought it would look bad for the club if they didn't have a team in tier 1 at every age group. This club finally came around (after complaints from parents) and decided to enter this team in tier 2 for the 2017 summer season. But then the OPDP fiasco came to be and the club again forced this team to OPDP. If these 7 clubs' main issue is ensuring strong competition (which, if we're being honest, is not what they are after), that can easily be achieved through the ERSL league - these clubs just need to be honest with themselves about what level any particular team should be playing at.
DeleteI should add, that the other comment I heard re OPDP is that the games continued into the fall, and that that was very difficult with school and hockey. Again, I personally enjoy playing in the fall, it is a beautiful time of year to play the game.
ReplyDeleteThis is a reality of Canada. The kids should play multiple sports. Most of the best athletes here want to play hockey. Hockey frequently demands commitment above all other activities. Hockey tryouts are in August and soccer becomes secondary from that point onward.
I'm not providing a solution here, but if the objective is to keep more kids in the game, and enthusiastic about the game, finding a way to better coexist with Canadian culture would go a long way. Maybe breaking league play into summer and fall seasons would help?
Yes, OPDP went on until October with very limited daylight by the end of the game lol. And yes, some teams got decimated when hockey trials started, lots of teams had no subs. But that's Canada, you can't change that.
DeleteI've heard throughout this blog that the Hotspurs are out of the OPDP... is that true? They do have decent teams especially their u10s (2008). I hope they remain in this league.
If there was a fall league vs summer, the kids who will stop playing in late August could do so and the teams could be readjusted for level etc at that time (calling up players etc). Of course that assumes voluntary tiering works. For some of the clubs, having the hockey players or not makes a huge difference in playing level, as in many cases they are great athletes. For a program like OSU Black or Futuro, that would make less of a difference as the kids are committed to year round training. In my mind, it is unfortunate to lose players from the system before they even get to play a single 11v11 game.
ReplyDeleteOPDP was supposed to happen on premium fields (though I know of at least one club that was using the same low quality fields they used for ERSL), and in my mind, premium fields should usually have proper lighting, no? That is the only significant factor limiting play going well into October.
Futuro will have to make some changes. Beating up on second tier teams won't be good for their development moving forward with CUSC, OSU Black and WOS (1st team) being in the OPDL.
ReplyDeleteWeakening Futuro has been one of the clear objectives over the past year
DeleteI think weakening Futuro is clearly an objective of some people in some clubs. Unfortunately people who are that politically motivated tend to be the ones who get in positions of power in their clubs and at the district. This is a huge problem for youth soccer.
DeleteThat said, I don't think it is working. The development program at Futuro is as strong or stronger than it has ever been. The team I am most familiar with plays better this year than it ever has in the past in spite of losing some players to OPDP and gaining new ones. The coaching is world class and the kids are benefiting tremendously from this. The level of competition in the EODSA T1 is not perfect but nor would it be in the OPDP. There are OPDP teams playing in the EODSA T1 over the winter rather than the Polar Bear League. The Futuro coaches understand how to challenge the kids that need greater challenges. Parents need to be patient and understand that a player will have ups and downs in their development path. Being the strongest kid today does not mean that some other kid won't surpass yours at some other point (or vice versa) as they grow and mature physically and psychologically. There are players that did not make the first team 3 years ago who are now playing up a year, largely due to their incredible work ethic. Futuro is about aiming higher than "winning" the local leagues. That said, it would be good for the kids in all programs if Futuro could play the stronger local teams. Hopefully sanity will prevail and that will happen!
I can echo this. Having been at one of the OPDL clubs and Futuro, I can attest that the training at Futuro when I made the switch was far superior and I noticed a significant improvement in my kids' play. I can also honestly say that the program has improved considerably just over the past few months, so the OPDP clubs' efforts haven't really done much other than negatively impact the development of the kids who left this past summer. I know of a number of the families who left that are now looking around for extra training elsewhere because they find what they are currently receiving with OPDP is lacking.
DeleteIf anything, the OPDP initiative seems to have opened some parents' eyes and realize how good they had it.
The young girl who plays for Futuro is one of the best local players I have ever seen. The Ontario Cup matches are good for her development, but some games against the OPDL squads would be beneficial as well.
ReplyDeleteFuturo has a number of girls who play with boys teams. They are fantastic players!
ReplyDeleteThe games are great, but most of their development happens in training (they train with the boys also). Organized training sessions outnumber games 3:1 and players are expected to train outside organized sessions on their own time as well.
That said, it would be great if OPDL teams would play friendlies with Futuro teams. Would be beneficial for all players.
Games where they are challenged are of extreme importance. They need solid game time experience, just like the pros.
ReplyDeleteEven prior to OPDP, there weren't that many competitive games. To be honest, out of a 12-14 game summer season, there were maybe 2-3 game worth playing. Those 2-3 game are easily made up for through exhibition games against hand-picked teams. Going to an inferior training environment has a far greater impact than giving up 2-3 somewhat competitive games.
DeleteI'm talking about post OPDP.
ReplyDeleteBy "post OPDP" you mean U13+ I assume?
ReplyDeleteSolid game time is important, more as they get older, but some parents way overemphasize that. If the training is not optimal, that does more hurt in my opinion. Also, OPDL is not the only source of quality teams, so there are other opportunities to challenge the kids, but I agree it would be great if the best teams could play each other more often, especially the local ones!
I find there is a gap here in Ottawa for kids when they are done their U17 outdoor season. Where do you go from there? Six months of waiting until the OCSL? Not ideal for someone who wants to play League 1/U Sports or down south.
ReplyDeleteThere is really that gap for everyone other than youth - the winter indoor soccer scene is a shambles that has been completely left to the for-profit unsanctioned leagues.
DeleteAside from the winter gap for 18 year-olds prior to university, why is sanctioned winter soccer for adults important? Once you are university age, you are either playing varsity or in a professional stream of some sort, and/or you are pursuing some other career and playing soccer for enjoyment... no? Why is sanctioned soccer important when you are playing for fun (even if the level of play is at a fairly high level)? Just get some like-minded friends/team-mates together and play... Why the fixation on "for-profit" vs not-for-profit"?
DeleteI agree 100% with this. The bigger clubs keep trying to push all these changes on the OCSL summer league under the veil that they would help player development. News for everyone - if you're over 17 and playing locally, that's it for you anyway. There's no real development in your future. Same goes for winter leagues for adults - it's all just for fun at that point.
DeleteCompetitive vs. Recreational (funny how "professional" is missing)? Sanctioned vs. Unsanctioned? For-profit vs. Not-for-profit? Business vs. Community, etc. Those are all terms used and now manipulated by the same big-old boy's clubs (scared, keeping tabs on and posting on this forum as "anonymous") to muddle your opinion of local soccer and make you forget the real issue here: and that is; whatever term you want to call soccer participation; NO ONE SHOULD BE EXCLUDED! The difference now is that the big clubs are now being two-faced about it.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYou can be playing locally (League 1 or Quebec Semi-Pro in Gatineau) and not be "done".
Deletere "competitive" vs "recreational": it's kind of more "representative" vs "recreational" nowadays. All soccer should be competitive - that's what makes it fun. The level of competition can be higher or lower, and there can be fairly highly skilled "recreational" play and fairly low skilled "representative" play. Really the only difference is that "rep" players represent a club (or academy) in some sanctioned league. All I was saying above is that for adults (18+), you can play rep or rec, but it's more or less the same deal - you're only playing for fun (ie the Soccer For Life stream rather than varsity or pro). Nothing wrong with that, but sanctioned/unsanctioned matters less at that point - find a league that is the right fit for playing level, cost, schedule, and you're gold! That's my opinion anyway.
DeleteWhat is a little strange to me is having as many as 6 or 8 youth teams at different tiers representing each club, and then play in a league where 3/8 teams at 1 tier represent the same club. Wouldn't that get boring? Some clubs are so huge now that that is where we are at.
I agree nobody should be excluded, or well at least, in a sanctioned league, all programs that meet the basic LTPD quality considerations should be allowed to play.
"Anonymous" has advantages in terms of allowing people to express ideas free from defamatory nonsense. It is unfortunate that youth soccer has become so political!
If you do not mind me asking, Why/how did it get to that point?
ReplyDeleteThe awful indoor soccer situation here in Ottawa post U 17?
From what I gather, the traditional OPDP league is no more. There will be a series of festivals on Sundays hosted by all 8 clubs, which are open to everyone to enter. The teams will play 2 games there like they would for any other festival. In between, there might be exhibition games, but it will not be a full parallel league like it was last year.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a good compromise, it let's everyone participate, including Futuro.
On top of that, there will also be some festivals on Saturdays like in previous years.
which will end up being exactly what it was last year, but with the pretence of inclusion. The matchups won't be drawn out of a hat.
DeleteHa! ROFL! What a magnanimous and transparent sacrifice present and offer to those being excluded. This is on par with Kim Jong-un to his people. Competition Bureau will have a field day trying to find due diligence and due process.
DeleteDude seriously, a middle ground was found, and you are still complaining?
ReplyDeleteRJROA, have some perspective. Your club (LACA?) can play in the Festivals.
ReplyDeleteOh no!!! Have I been outed? It's the end of the world what is one to do under a regime that is trying to shame me and play to my vanity and ego? A regime that implies I have no right to an opinion and free speech? A regime that uses double-speak to characterize the 2018 OPDP league as "nontraditional league"; "festival but possible exhibition games"; "not a full parallel league";... what else?! People are not dumb, they know wrong-doing when they see it.
DeleteI may be a skeptic (in part because I know of some of the discussions that have taken place in the background over the past few months) - but I imagine the fees for these festivals would be the same as a regular festival ($300, give or take)? Or would the 7 OPDP clubs arrange a special fee among themselves and charge the others a full fee? Again, I know of a couple of the clubs who are adamant that they won't play against Futuro, then the thing with the Polar Bear/OSU league this winter, makes me question whether this will practically be open to all clubs (on par with the 7 OPDP clubs).
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't like the festival formats - too time consuming to play a couple of short games, spread over a day or two, compared to playing a single full game. And if you're talking about holding 7 of these over the summer...
RJROA, LACA are welcome to come and play in the Festivals.
ReplyDeleteWhat part do you not get? If you want your kids to play better competition, here is your chance.
"My kids"? What part do you not get? EVERYBODY should get a chance! Now, you do understand that our soccer "association" has been conveniently placid about exclusion in soccer; therefore trusting your unofficial --what would you call it?-- bribe? promise? appeasement? contract? agreement? is just that: unofficial. Specially when coming from an "Anonymous" source and in a public opinion blog. So now, that you magnanimously offered; you wouldn't mind if anyone makes the whole petition? solicitation? requisition? demand? application process transparent and public? The OPDP has nothing to hide right? Please direct us, oh so wise omnipotent ruler, to the web page, telephone, email, schedule, brochure, pamphlet, etc. Oh you don't have one. And very much like our revered Kim Jung-un; you ok to leave inclusion for all clubs at the whim of the Old-boys-club-back-room-boys-will-be-boys-gym talk? WoW!
Delete8 clubs.
ReplyDeleteThe polar bear league only included 7 clubs (the OPDP rogue league was originally 7 clubs because Hotspurs were being shut out, then they decided to let Hotspurs in for the summer). In the winter league, it was decided they would shut them out again. From what I have heard from a couple of clubs, they will play 7 festivals, with each of OSU, WOS, Gloucester, Cumberland, Internationals, Ottawa City and Capital United organizing one. Are you saying they've allowed Hotspurs to participate in this again?
DeleteAnother thing to keep in mind with these festivals is that the organizing clubs have all kinds of discretion to ensure they avoid playing certain teams. I remember at the Internationals Icebreaker that my son's team entered once (and never again after what they did) - they grouped Internationals' team with two teams from Montreal's west island and left the strong local teams to play tier 2 teams (which is who Internationals should have been playing). I spoke to the people from these Montreal teams and they were furious about being grouped with such weak Ottawa teams and the only competitive game being against a team they play against in their own local league in Montreal. Neither team ever returned to play this festival/tournament again.
I expect the same type of games to be played by the organizers this summer.
The Hotspurs are in. Problem with festivals in general... no scores, no standings. If there were scores and standings, then the strong teams would end up playing the strong teams and the weaker would play the weaker. Blame it on the OSA.
DeleteEven without scores and standings, the strong teams can be grouped together because it's generally known who the strongest teams are. The problem is the organizers have discretion to group teams any way they choose.
DeleteAgreed, if there were scores, the stronger teams would likely end up playing each other at some point in a tournament. But there is no reason that they can't group the strong teams together at a festival - except that it doesn't fit into some people's grand plans.
The other problem with festivals is that they take up more time than a regular game and make it difficult for teams to coordinate other competitions throughout the summer (remember, the rest of the world runs youth tournaments on weekends). There's a reason this type of system doesn't exist anywhere else - does anyone here really think the rest of the world are morons and some guy at OSU has figured out the world's soccer problems?
No scores or standings has been the norm in all U9-U12 play for a while now. As noted above, it is pretty evident to those watching the games which programs are stronger. I know from experience that tournament organizing of match ups can be either "conniving" as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, or simply arbitrary - as in the people involved don't always know that well what would be best and rely on opinions from others or just do it some way that is practical and gets the tournament organized and off the ground.
DeleteAt the end of the day, the clubs love tournaments because they are significant fundraisers. In addition to each team spending $300 to play a couple shorter than normal games, there are sales of food, merchandise, etc. It can be a fun environment, and it can be a positive experience, but teams are often at the mercy of the organizers. Note that in contrast, it only cost around $300 to enter a team in the ERSL for an entire summer last year.
Also, I find that in Canada, weekend tournaments in summer conflict with #2 of the 2 Big Canadian Culture Things (Hockey and Cottages). If all games are on weekends, you are going to have families with cottages say "soccer is not for us". I say that speaking as a coach who does not own a cottage.
I like the games on Sundays, it's easier to manage for a parent like myself. Of course I would prefer a league, instead of festivals, but really the point of a league in Ontario is a bit of a joke. With no scores or standings, nobody takes it seriously. Lots of parents just drop their kids off at the game and don't even watch the games anymore, it's all pointless and for nothing. It creates the feeling that soccer in Canada is just another fun activity that nobody takes seriously. It's not like that in the rest of the world, soccer at the youth level is taken VERY seriously, scouts look for talent all over the place, and it's really a serious serious business.
DeleteIn Ontario we seem to want to do the inverse... make it really non-attractive, non-competitive and "just for fun". It's the endless mindset of "recreational soccer", which is still a term that I don't understand.
I can't understand how a bunch of people got in a room and decided that this no scores or standings was a good idea. Another myth is the multi sport athlete... Messi played any other sport? Ronaldo? No top soccer player ever played multi sports! It's a myth, a lie, a joke perpetuated by people with GOD knows what intentions. Nothing against multi sport kids, great for them, but don't tell me they have an advantage over other kids, because that's bogus. It's a total load of BS.
In Canada, these soccer myths are accepted and repeated ad-nauseam for what purpose I don't know.
What Canada needs is a Head coach from a top European nation, a guy with top notch credentials that would have 100% power to completely re-organize the face of soccer in this Nation. And then maybe we can start to do a bit better.
Sunday evening games is a great idea. Middle of the day Sat/Sun every week and you are going to lose players. Summer is short in Canada. People have cottages and go on holiday. In Europe they can work on a different schedule - the climate and culture is different.
DeleteFor U9-U12, I disagree wrt your opinion on the importance of multisport. Single sport athletes often miss important areas of physical literacy and U9-12 is the critical age for wiring the brain to get those ABC's. There are specific phases of brain development that ideally you need to hit. In high school, yes specialization is necessary. Multisport does not necessarily mean participation in multiple competitive sports, but if you have a kid who plays soccer but can't swim, skate, bike, tumble, catch a ball, hit a ball with a bat or racket... well you don't have an athlete. That has to come first, and if you look at many Olympians, they will tell you that they attribute their success to playing lots of sports at a young age. Lots of articles about this, and not just with soccer, hockey also at the highest levels, and we have many world class hockey players in Canada who grew up playing multiple sports even if hockey was their #1. Have to be an athlete first. If you want a soccer example, look at Ibrahimovic. His biomechanics are heavily influenced by Tae Kwon Do and this allows him to connect with many seemingly impossible balls which have painfully obvious solutions to someone with a martial arts background.
Other than that, the scores thing, I agree is unnecessary. Standings also is kind of part of the fun of being in a league. What is a problem though (and this is still a problem even with nil-nil games and no standings) is that coaches will coach to win, especially if promotion and relegation is involved. The solution is in coach and parent education. Winning does not always mean better play. I can take the same group of players and coach them to win without learning, or coach them to struggle, have a close game, and learn something from it (and probably still win, but not put the priority on the winning part). That might mean moving players into roles they are less comfortable with. If I always play my best players in their best positions just to prove superiority (and especially if that is an expectation of the program, that we always win 10-0 so we can attract "the best talent"), then what are the kids learning? As adults interested in educating children, we should want an equally matched, beautifully played game, and I say that from the perspective of the kids on the other team also. So the intent of the nil-nil U12 games was to achieve that, but really it hasn't because coaches and parents (and administrators!) still are often obsessed with the score. So really, the solution is better coach (and parent) education, but that is harder than just declaring that all games shall be nil-nil.
Before the nil-nil games, there were some even wackier rules proposed (score caps with penalties etc). I don't disagree that we do the sport an injustice in Canada, but I feel that is true on many fronts.
Just to add to the multisports thing:
Deletehttps://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/the-great-ones-message-to-parents-let-your-kids-have-fun/article17971897/
Many elite athletes start in one sport and end up in another. Though it is uncommon, a handful excel in multiple sports at the top levels, eg:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bloom
and of course Clara Hughes.
The LTPD approach for sport in Canada is integrated into just about every youth sport now whether it is golf, ski, basketball, or whatever. The phases of development are roughly the same.
Aside from the development and fun vs burnout aspects, playing multiple sports is better physiologically in terms of using different muscle groups which leads to reduced risk of injury: less chance of overuse, better proprioception, etc.
All parents should be better educated in this.
The multi-sport issue has been spun in such a way that kids development in their primary sport could be negatively impacted. I don't think there is any question that someone whose focus is soccer would benefit from participating in other activities - I've seen this in my own children. But participating in other activities to the point that you regularly miss training in your primary sport (or have to take time away from your primary sport) puts that child in a position where they will never catch up. The real idea behind the benefits of multi-sports isn't that you need to play in an organized league and be driven around to every activity the child participates in. They can be involved in other sports through school sports (which can begin in grade 3), phys ed class (beginning in kindergarten), or playing in the backyard/park/street. The idea is to develop different aspects of movement, coordination and muscle use that you might not get from soccer - but reducing the amount of soccer training puts you behind the 8-ball right off the bat.
DeleteI agree to some extent with this. Consistent practice and learning of body mechanics of one's main sport from an early age is beneficial.
DeleteThat said, look at someone like Steve Nash. He didn't start playing basketball until he was about 12. He played lots of soccer and hockey. Should he have defined soccer or hockey as his primary sport at U9? Should his parents have pushed him into basketball at U6? Would that have made him better? Lots and lots of examples of this in world class athletes in all sports including soccer.
Unfortunately sports in the school system is often very weak, and perhaps that is where Sport Canada should be putting more emphasis.
I would still say that the issues with soccer in Canada are primarily cultural. Hockey is huge here, partly due to our climate. Hockey programs often ask for single-sport focus from an early age, though it is recognized at higher levels that this is a problem (see Wayne Gretzky's commentary, but also certain underdeveloped reflexes in hockey-only players limit their potential in the NHL). Personally, I feel the pull of hockey as a single sport is the bigger impact on soccer than kids playing multi-sports, even if they miss a little training here and there. Hockey players tend to miss a lot more soccer training than kids in other sports. But, Canada is world class in hockey, so clearly they are doing something right.
So maybe pandering to hockey players is not important, especially at higher levels. Maybe they can play T2 or recreational (fair enough, though many drop soccer completely). Many of the best athletes do play organized hockey though, so are we looking to develop the best athletes? or the best soccer players from whoever didn't want to play hockey? Not a simple question. Some kids will play high level hockey early on and drop it for some other sport when the physical level increases.
One could go a step further and ask how many people know their career path from U9? Should one train to be one thing from early on and neglect their broader education? Even if you did know your path from an early age, should you not still get a broader education?
Good coaches are educators. Most players in U9-U12, even very elite ones at that age, are not going to play soccer professionally. That is not a failure! Wouldn't it be cool to have been Steve Nash's U9 soccer coach?
Facts are that none of the top soccer players in the world ever played multisports. Do you think serious soccer playing kids in Argentina/Portugal/Brazil/Germany/etc go play multisports? That doesn't exist, it's a Canadian born myth with no basis in reality.
DeleteSure, there's people who are naturally born athletes that could have been great at multiple sports. I'm sure Drogba could have been a great world class sprinter, but would he have been a top notch soccer player at the same time? Probably not.
Hockey monopolizes everything in this country in terms of youth sports. The real tragedy is that this country probably missed out on alot of great soccer players, simply because those kids were too busy playing nonsense Competitive B or A hockey (forget AAA or AA).
One thing I have to point out is that this myth about how Hockey Canada must be doing things the right way, because Canada is #1 in the world. Canada is the only country in the world where hockey is #1, and that's it's competitive advantage. Soccer is ahead of hockey in Sweden, Russia and Finland, with no other country even having a close comparison. In my mind, the fact that Sweden, Russia and Finland are even as close to Canada as they are in hockey suggests that maybe Hockey Canada doesn't have such a great system.
DeleteIn any case, Canada's problem is that everyone plays soccer, but very few play it seriously. The player pool could be reduced to those who play it seriously, and with some investment from the CSA, they could get much more out of these players.
But the politics we're seeing in Ottawa and Ontario are rather off-putting.
ROA, it's just a sport, man lol. This is not global warfare.
ReplyDelete[red faced] I am so embarrassed. I forgot how bashful and fragile some of these clubs are looking to have picnic festivals and shy away form real ELITE opposition while charging parents an arm and a leg for mediocre results. My bad.
DeleteI've gotta side with RJROA on this. I don't think many people here personally know some of the people behind all of this (I mean really know them, not just to say hello in passing) - a couple of these guys are pretty deceitful and conniving and have been for many years.
DeleteHow many Exhibition Games will they play outside of the Festivals? Would be nice to see Futuro compete in a couple of these Festivals.
ReplyDeleteHopefully KNSA enters some of these festivals as well. It's nice to see everyone play against each other.
ReplyDeleteAre they planning on only doing 8 Festivals? 8 clubs = 8 festivals.
ReplyDeleteYes it's the decision that was taken.
DeleteOnly 8 festivals? You realize that's nearly every weekend in the summer? Sounds like these clubs are creating a disaster.
DeleteYes, nearly every weekend in the summer, yet only 8 weeks of (short) games all clumped together... So they will need friendlies to fill that out. I doubt cottage owning families will like this!
DeleteI think cottage loving people in Canada would stop loving cottages, if it was hockey festivals instead of soccer festivals. No kid dares to miss a hockey practice (GOD forbid) , even if it's Competitive B(!) Soccer is apparently no big deal, screw practices/games. It's cultural really, but if soccer clubs started to seriously punish kids who miss soccer practices (like they certainly do in Hockey) then maybe we could start to see a change from the "cottage loving people". No wonder Canada is 100 in the world... too many cottage loving people.
DeleteKids in Brazil and Chile don't have cottages, hockey....or a hell of a lot of anything really other than a soccer dream. That is the culture difference, and why Canada will always suck at soccer lifetimes from now.
DeleteThat is exactly what I was saying. It is a cultural problem. So then how do you change that?
DeleteIf soccer clubs started to seriously punish kids who miss practices because of cottages....baseball would come back as the summer sport, and all these soccer clubs would go broke.
DeleteAlso, soccer is not a summer sport in Europe or South America. That is when they do their nod to multisport training. Good luck telling the French not to head to the beach in August.
It's a cultural difference, but not necessarily tied to not having anything else going on. Many first world, G8 countries share this cultural difference too. Two big things - there is a greater passion for it elsewhere in the world, and they have pro systems that help to identify and develop players who might not otherwise be able to play because of financial constraints (whereas we have 3 clubs that can provide something like this).
DeleteThis is what I'm saying. The French head to the beach and Canadians head to the cottage. Our climate influences our culture. It used to be that almost nobody played soccer in winter in Canada. Now we have domes, players can train and play, but only on a schedule. Sure if kids are passionate enough, they will play in the snow, but it's not quite like Spain or Brazil or Italy where people regularly go out and play in the street. Look at the soccer fields in summer - they're mostly empty. Go to an outdoor rink on a weekend in winter - probably full of kids playing hockey. I'm not defending hockey (or cottages), but one either has to coexist or develop some sort of cultural shift if you want the best athletes playing soccer here rather than hockey.
DeleteMy guess is a "league" of "festivals" on every weekend in the summer is probably not going to be welcomed by many families outside of the hard core soccer fanatics (and by "fanatics" I mean the parents as much or more than the kids). Perhaps you are arguing that this is desirable?
Maybe we need to look at how countries with similar climates to ours develop youth. Sweden in particular would be a good place to start, assuming they've got it figured out better than us. If nothing else, they are in the World Cup.
It's good that Nepean is part of the 8 for the summer.
ReplyDeleteIt helps solidify the OPDP.
JL? Is that you?
DeleteThat can't be JL...remember, he's the one trying to keep Hotspurs out of the OPDP group.
DeleteWow, not standing on solid ground? Says volumes.
DeleteThey have meticulously wanted to do this (since a 2016 secret meeting they held behind our "Associations" backs), followed a script and disrupt the established "sanctioned" lines of business:
ReplyDelete(1) Obscurity and back-room manipulation;
(2) Splitting of club's liabilities (similar to Tecumseh SC);
(3) Blurring but effectively using the Exhibition Games loophole (now tightened by OS but still available as an option);
(4) Attempting to muscle the Adult league into reconsidering it's affiliations (http://www.ocslonline.ca/Archives.aspx);
(5) And now using the designation of "Staff" for (completely legal) "for-profit" 7v7 year round activities; all to evade being penalized.
Mind you, I don't really care how it plays out, however an equal opportunity for EVERYONE at the starting line is a human right, a legal right, and a commercial (business) right. The OS and above are afraid of losing this region's representation so won't do anything; the OPDP are actually afraid of the other 30%-to-49% of small/regional clubs + academies + Gatineau clubs + "Sports businesses" (all add up to a good competitive chunk to their vision of exclusion). One or the other has to give up and do something about this chaos and EXCLUSION.
Nah, the exhibition games were a reaction, not planned. If they had been planned, they would not have been forced to lie to OS about the existence of a league schedule
DeleteYou are correct. I forgot their continuous practice of lying & deceit.
DeleteThe thing with many hockey parents is that they think their kid will play in the NHL. Some do but they are rare. I grew up with 4 guys who played in the big league, and I grew up with THOUSANDS of very good hockey players. Do the math.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Many kids (parents) put so much focus on hockey that they neglect other aspects of their education and then do not to make it to the NHL anyway. Big gamble. Parents and coaches need a broader perspective, and that is part of the intent with the multi-sport and LTPD.
DeleteFuturo, Glenn and Gary, LACA etc...will be able to compete.
ReplyDeleteThe region's top best East Development League (eastdevelopmentleague.com) was an incredible success. Thank you to all who participated.
ReplyDeleteSee you next season!
"I don't get what [put your club name here] is upset about? Do they feel they belong on the field with OSU Black and Cumberland?"
ReplyDelete---------- Challenge accepted. Where do we sign up?
ha ha! funny... like a very astute person recently said: "it's not the time to bark; it's the time to bite."
ReplyDeleteYou already signed up in the EODSA. You lost. Badly.
ReplyDeleteThe EODSA now makes the whole idea of a district association useless. If it just exists to represent the big clubs, may as well just have clubs directly under Ontario Soccer. That would probably save a lot of money too.
DeleteEODSA "discipline" flows with the wind. Amateur off the field as well? Having said that, threats of EODSA discipline do not apply to staff. They implied so:
Delete"It may be a violation, but because it involves staff there is the question surrounding discipline... ...I don’t think anyone can legally restrict staff..."
Maybe? Sounds very wishy-washy. Community service / lesson of the day: Have your "staff" do the "other leagues". Your club is separate and apparently will not be touched!
By the looks of things I am considering resigning and taking up the Executive Club Editor position for 1 cent a year.
It will be more open this summer. LACA, KNSA, GG, Seaway Valley etc. will hopefully partake in some festivals. FCB even had some matches with the Hornets. Let's all play against each other.
ReplyDeleteTFC is out of OPDL this year. They seem to go in and out every year. Not sure what they're doing/thinking.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard for parents who have kids in OPDL teams to take this league seriously, when the top youth team in Ontario goes in/out of the league whenever they feel like it. Anybody knows (no rumors please) for sure why they are not competing in OPDL this year?
I've heard they plan on moving their teams to the USSF academy league because the competition is better. It would be a waste of time for them to play OPDL at their own age, so they have been playing up a year, but that isn't ideal either because of risks of injury playing against older/bigger kids. Are they still leaving a couple of teams to play in OPDL though?
ReplyDeleteThere have been rumours of the OPDL collapsing even before TFC pulling out, but this would seem to validate that not everyone is thrilled about the level of play there. There were also rumours of an entire block of clubs pulling out and that the reason so many clubs were added this year was to ensure the number of clubs didn't decline if those clubs did pull out.
The USSF league runs Sept - June, so it's possible they could still participate in OPDL this year, but yes, they are definitely moving to USSD league. There are a couple of TFC teams listed in OPDL right now, but keep in mind that this is coming from Ontario Soccer, which is not the most forthright group.
ReplyDeleteI think someone tweeted about TFC pulling out of OPDL - Steve Gennaro or Totero, based on their discussions with people during TFC's recent media day. I suppose this would still be considered a rumour, but those guys tend to be in the know.
ReplyDeleteThe USSF academy league is where the Impact and Whitecaps compete... it's a step up from OPDL I imagine. Problem is, they're traveling to NYC every second week.
ReplyDeleteIt's a loss to OPDL if confirmed, but I can understand why they would do it.
Lots more going on than people are saying
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=10249254&V_TOKEN=1518720169983&crpNm=Canadian%20Amateur%20Soccer%20Alliance&crpNmbr=&bsNmbr=
Any insight into what the Canadian Amateur Soccer Alliance is (or what it's intended to do)? I see the EODSA ED is a director.
DeleteBejesusssss! On your company dime! lol
DeleteThat's a big loss for the marketing of the OPDL. I get why TFC want to do it though.
ReplyDeleteHaving TFC's teams play in OPDL was had no benefits to them - they were playing against older kids who were not at their level technically anyway. There really wasn't much benefit to the other OPDL clubs either - being able to beat a younger team because you're bigger does nothing for your development, nor does it prove anything. This was all a marketing arrangement to help OS. I find the MLS clubs have all kinds of marketing deals with clubs (Whitecaps are by far the worst for this, followed to TFC), where they agree to have a certain number of kids from these clubs come train with them, thereby allowing the kid's club to sell the dream of playing pro one day.
ReplyDelete