On June 9, a parent was emailed the following from Ontario
Soccer regarding the OPDP:
"A hearing is being schedule for this month. A judgement by the independent discipline panel would then follow. We do not control timelines and cannot comment further. It is the objective of everyone to conclude this file quickly so the players can resume playing sanctioned soccer as soon as possible."
As this is the last week of June, the hearing will hopefully
take place before the weekend, if it hasn't already.
On June 12, a team official was emailed a similar message from Ontario Soccer:
On June 12, a team official was emailed a similar message from Ontario Soccer:
"As communicated out to many of the EODSA membership contacting our office, Ontario Soccer currently is undergoing a Discipline Review process with the Clubs associated with the unsanctioned OPDP. Until this process is completed, including judgement by the Independent Discipline Panel, we will not comment further. Future updates on this file will be communicated through the EODSA office and posted on their website."
How quickly will the hearing judgement be made public?
Because it is not practical for the OPDP teams to return to the ERSL, they will likely argue that they have to continue with their competition for the sake of their players. They do, however, have the option of playing in sanctioned festivals (the EODSA has a list of approved festivals). If they are permitted to continue with Sunday evening games, then there is no credibility to the Ontario Soccer process of dealing with unsanctioned soccer. Ontario Soccer should insist on festivals and weekday exhibition games that do not follow a schedule (i.e. occasional games) for OPDP teams - a change that will require the OPDP clubs to explain to their parents that they contravened Ontario Soccer rules. The OPDP teams have completed six rounds of games. They are not playing the Canada Day long weekend and resume July 9 - Ontario Soccer must insist that those games not go ahead.
The post "Still no response from Ontario Soccer..." described uncompetitive games as one of the consequences of the OPDP. The impact is significant - here are just a few examples:
Because it is not practical for the OPDP teams to return to the ERSL, they will likely argue that they have to continue with their competition for the sake of their players. They do, however, have the option of playing in sanctioned festivals (the EODSA has a list of approved festivals). If they are permitted to continue with Sunday evening games, then there is no credibility to the Ontario Soccer process of dealing with unsanctioned soccer. Ontario Soccer should insist on festivals and weekday exhibition games that do not follow a schedule (i.e. occasional games) for OPDP teams - a change that will require the OPDP clubs to explain to their parents that they contravened Ontario Soccer rules. The OPDP teams have completed six rounds of games. They are not playing the Canada Day long weekend and resume July 9 - Ontario Soccer must insist that those games not go ahead.
The post "Still no response from Ontario Soccer..." described uncompetitive games as one of the consequences of the OPDP. The impact is significant - here are just a few examples:
Non-OPDP clubs, and their parents, should be entitled to
compensation for their loss of opportunity. Will Ontario Soccer take any
financial penalties it
collects from the OPDP clubs and distribute them to non-OPDP clubs? The EODSA
could be tasked with determining a fair distribution.
Justice delayed is justice denied. Real action is required from Ontario Soccer to restore trust in sanctioned soccer.
For a recent article on the OPDP controversy, see the latest edition of the Ottawa Sports Page.
Justice delayed is justice denied. Real action is required from Ontario Soccer to restore trust in sanctioned soccer.
For a recent article on the OPDP controversy, see the latest edition of the Ottawa Sports Page.
Assuming the fines are applied per team/per game, OSU is looking at a $74k fine. I almost wish they would play a few more weeks,...except that Soccer Ontario has shown time and time again that it is ineffective and lacks credibility with its members.
ReplyDeleteThe only way to get through to these OPDP clubs is with significant fines, because as we all know, their actions are based purely on their paid administrators' drive for personal financial gain.
ReplyDeleteI agree that these clubs will try to argue that they should be allowed to continue for the sake of the children, but I know quite a few parents at these clubs and the vast majority have known exactly what has been going on. Some disagree with it but went along for fear of reprisal, while others were hoping for the same result as the club administrators - poaching top players from other programs around the city. The coaches for the OPDP teams have also known all along exactly what is going on, as this was communicated to them by their clubs. But it would be difficult to obtain those communications because even the coaches who disagree with the clubs' actions fear reprisal.
It is important for Soccer Ontario to be firm and impose significant sanctions in this case, because these same clubs have actively been planning to form an unsanctioned senior league as well (whereby their teams would withdraw from the Ottawa-Carleton Soccer League).
In addition to effective fines (that actually force these clubs to think twice about doing this again), they/we (everyone) should force steps to make IMPARTIALITY the first and foremost principle at the EODSA (at the board decision level and club membership rules and regulations). Lastly, the fines to be reinvested in the region in promoting and marketing Codes of Conduct within the game and most definitely outside of it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they could use some of the money that will be collected from fines to enroll JL, BM, PM, CS and PP in an ethics course or something like that.
ReplyDeleteI come up with total fines of $323,000 based on $1,000 per game played by each team involved (OSU - $73k; WOS - $41k; Gloucester - $41k; Internationals - $41k; Hotspurs - $39k; Cumberland - $38k; Ottawa City - $36k; and Capital United - $14k). There should be additional financial penalties as well, and these funds should be used to compensate other clubs and the ERSL for their losses.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the fines to these clubs, the club executives and coaches need to be reprimanded with suspensions.
Everything we do in life is for financial gain... we go to work for financial gain, we invest in the markets for financial gain, etc etc
ReplyDeleteIs OSU financial gain any different than KNSA or Futuro financial gain?
Why do Kevin Nelson and Sanjeev have their own academies? Why can't they work for a club? Some people may say that it's because they hate politics and they believe they can do a better job by themselves, than joining a club. That's probably 50% correct, the other 50% is financial gain. They have a skill, they're good at it, and they believe they can make a lot more money on their own than being paid by a club.
Let's not get ridiculous now. OSU makes money from soccer but so do other people. Nobody's out there doing this 100% just for the kids. Not in Canada, not in Ottawa.
I'm a parent from one of the OPDP clubs, I don't like this exclusion, I wish it didn't happen and I'm actually hopeful that the OSA might reach some sort of agreement, so that we can all go back to the way things were before.
As for the OPDP parents not speaking out against the clubs... that's hypocrisy! None of the parents/coaches speaking in this forum would speak out if the roles were reversed, this is the absolute truth. Matter of fact, I do see alot of new kids showing up at OPDP clubs from non-OPDP clubs, which leads me to believe that parents from non-OPDP clubs are actually eager to join OPDP clubs. They complain, but in the end they are moving their kids to OPDP clubs.
I hope this war ends soon, and we can go back to ERSL. I don't like exclusions anymore than any of you.
You're hopeful Soccer Ontario will reach some sort of agreement? I don't see what there is to agree to (other than the fact that these 8 clubs have broken the rules and lied about it). Their plan is based purely on the fear that private academies will proliferate the way they have in Toronto. The difference is that in Toronto people have accepted the situation, whereas certain people in Ottawa see that as a threat to their personal incomes.
DeleteSoccer Ontario was initially opposed to private academies and tried to suppress their growth by taking the stance that anyone not playing in the OPDL won't be considered for the provincial teams. The problem was that far more of the top players moved to SAAC than they had anticipated, so they had to come up with the ORNCA (now ORA) designations of academies and will now consider ORA players for provincial teams. I predict that in the near future we will see the elimination of barriers to academies playing in leagues against clubs - the Toronto soccer landscape can easily transition to this model. This is exactly what the big clubs in Ottawa are trying to prevent, but I think the upcoming disciplinary hearing will be a big mark against them. Regardless of your opinion on whether clubs or academies are better, no one can logically argue that the strongest players should be playing against one another. The clubs will somewhat agree with this, provided that the best players move to the club system. They can see for themselves that the system they envisage doesn't work, but they're blinded by $$$$$.
Meant to say no one can argue that the strongest players should not be playing against one another.
DeleteI'm all for eliminating barriers regarding academies. Let them all participate, no exclusions. Academies are part of the landscape in Canada. I would like to see a minimum of standards being met though, otherwise any guy who calls himself a coach can set up an academy! While in Ottawa there's two good academies, there's also lots of nonsense.
DeleteI'm also for opening up the OPDL to academies, as long as they meet the standards, which some of them do.
In the end OPDL must not fail, it must the de-facto highest standard for youth soccer in Ontario, that's very important. Including SAAC and CAF academies in OPDL is part of that.
I don't have an opinion on what is best: clubs or academies. My kid plays for a club, but he could easily play for an academy if a good one existed near my place of residence. Professional clubs and NCAA univ don't care where the player did his/her development. They only care if he/she can play soccer.
Sanjeev is TD of St. Anthony's. Kevin ran technical development programs for Royals (now OCSC). In addition to the politics within the clubs (again, unnecessary and ridiculous! the same people messing with the league mess up their own clubs!), I suspect part of the reason they have their academies is it is a bit smaller environment, more of a family, than in a massive club. Kevin and Sanjeev have a very clear understanding of each academy player's strengths and weaknesses and the development path forward. They spend a lot of time on the field with the players. Hard to do that in a program of 6000 players. In that situation, the TD becomes as much a manager of coaches as an active coach, at least if they are putting any emphasis into the bulk of those numbers in lower tier and rec-level programs... or else they focus on the smaller elite group and ignore lower level players. It's a time thing.
DeleteParents moving their kids to OPDP clubs are doing so partly because they value the games and league structure and feel they have no other choice. That was the intent of the OPDP clubs in their actions. To be honest, the training does more for the kids' development, but kids want to play in an appropriate league because the competition is fun. Sometimes (too often) the parents are too over-engaged in this also. Appropriate level games are important, but everyone needs to be level-headed also. U9-U12 is "learn to train" not "train to compete".
It really makes sense to combine OPDL, SAAC, and CAF and possibly tier them, as there are some weaker programs in all 3.
This unification should be in place for the regional leagues (at all age levels) also. It is completely unreasonable for Ontario Soccer to expect U9-12 ORA teams in Ottawa to travel to Toronto to participate in SAAC (there are generally travel restrictions for younger teams anyway). However the current rules that do not allow ORA teams to play in the ERSL leave Ottawa academies with no option to play by the rules! The structure is this way by design to prevent academies from succeeding.
Also, it should be noted that when Futuro teams play in the league, either back with Royals/OCSC or now with St Anthony's, each player on the team pays a separate fee to the club that is more or less equivalent to what they would pay if they were a club-only player (usually identical). This is on top of the academy training fee. These players are both club players and academy players, so it is not like they are freeloading or sneaking in under the radar and not contributing to things like ref development, club infrastructure, etc. This nonsense of Futuro not being allowed to promote/market having teams of players that all train in the academy as Futuro is ridiculous. They are both St Anthony and Futuro players and pay both sets of fees.
Look, if the academies ceased to exist tomorrow, the clubs would play politics against each other to steal players, gain territory, etc. It's a small few adults ruining a kids game. *That* is the problem Ontario Soccer needs to step in and fix. Clear, inclusive rules that are actually enforced is the only solution.
From a parents perspective: We didn't even know our club was creating/joining be this underground league until it already happened. We probably would have left the club if we knew beforehand (which is probably why they didn't tell the parents).
DeleteMy daughter has been playing for OCSC for 2 years in the competitive program and 3 years before that in the rec program. We were not told at all during the assessments this year that what their plans were. We were not told there would be a special T1 team that only played certain other teams (opdp) and a T2 team that would be playing against other T1 teams (non-opdp clubs) and also against T2 teams (from the opdp clubs). It was not transparent at all. Needless to say the T2 team tied or lost nearly all their games because any non-opdp teams they played against were actually T1. It's not fair for either team. The kids (from both sides) deserve to play against kids at the same level.
I certainly hope there are no shenanigans next year. This league should not exist.
I have no problem with people profiting and making a living, whether it be someone running a private academy, or as an administrator at a not-for-profit club. However, the argument that these clubs use for excluding private academies from the Ontario soccer landscape is that owners of private academies are profiting and not putting anything back into the system. While these clubs are not-for-profit organizations, their finances are easily manipulated by the people running them, for their own personal gain. I'm pretty sure most parents would fall on their asses if they found out just how much certain individuals are making in salaries and consulting fees with some of the big clubs here in Ottawa. The difference though (other than the fact that these not-for-profit club administrators are making far more than the academy owners) is that the owners of these academies are on the field with the children every night, making a noticeable difference in their development, while based on the behaviour I have witnessed from some of these club administrators, they shouldn't even be allowed near children. Say what you want, but I'm sure most people would agree that they value the on-field development provided by the academy owner much more than having a club president swearing at their children (particularly when he isn't even a coach).
ReplyDeleteI also know of some parents who have moved their children to one OPDP club as well, but the ones I know of have bounced around from program to program because they can't find what they are looking for (someone who will tell them their child is the best player around).
I think, as the Ottawa Sportspage alluded, there are a lot of other "larger storylines at play..." which this issue (exclusion) has brought into view. I think everyone has valid points based on their experience about the general soccer state in Ottawa. One of my closest friend is a coach at one of the OPDP clubs. The collected evidence couldn't have been possible without the support of the parents, coaches and referees having some relationship with the OPDP cubs. The one thing though all parents, coaches, referees, administrator can do here is have an adult / civil conversation about it without pushing your weight around. Something the OPDP took from others, and the governing organizations either are incapable of doing something about it or hiding it on purpose. .. Or hopefully doing something about it soon.
ReplyDeleteAny word on when this disciplinary hearing is now scheduled for? I'm sure these eight clubs are trying to push it off indefinitely (or until they can force the dissolution of the EODSA).
ReplyDeleteI don't know when it's been rescheduled for, but CS and OSU continues to provide all of the other seven clubs with schedules for all of their teams - nice of OSU to organize exhibition games for the other clubs (even the ones OSU isn't playing in). Apparently they have plans to extend the season too, which makes me wonder what the hell Ontario Soccer is doing all this time.
DeleteOttawa Fury was supposed to host a clinic by the Montreal Impact this coming Sunday afternoon, but had to cancel it. Apparently OSU and Gloucester pressured the other clubs that they had to go ahead with their "exhibition games" (yes, by chance OSU, Gloucester, WOS, Internationals, Ottawa City, Cumberland, Capital United and Hotspurs all happen to have exhibition games at the same time on Sunday afternoon). This goes back to the OSU's position that it's players should not be attending any Fury games or events. In other news, Ontario Soccer continues to sit there with its thumb up its ass.
ReplyDeleteOSU is the only youth club in the national capital region that isn't part of the Fury Fanatics program, where children 14 and under can get free tickets. Apparently they tell families that they shouldn't be going to Fury games. All goes back to when the Fury operated teams in the Super Y League and JL saw it as a hit to his/OSU's pocket. Such a disgusting person.
DeleteOSU parents were never told not to attend Fury games. In fact many OSU players/parents attend Fury games.
DeleteThere is some issue between Fury and OSU for sure, what it is, I don't know. Whatever the problem is, I'm sure there's two sides to the story.
I know people who were told they "probably shouldn't go to Fury games". Think about that shady land deal with the City, this OPDP issue, the fact that OSU is the only club in the region that refuses to allow its members to receive free tickets to Fury games - do you really think there are two sides to the story?
DeleteUp until yesterday night the EODSA news section had an image of the "June 29th independent disciplinary committee. Not there now but managed to read the jist of it: OPDP clubs free on probation so long as they continue continue to abide by Ontario Soccer rules. Imagine an emoji here for a pile of smelly sh...t
ReplyDeleteI thought Soccer Ontario stated the result of the hearing would be communicated to EODSA members through the website - and now they are hiding it from everyone?
DeleteAre you saying the disciplinary committee found that these clubs are not following the rules and are on probation provided they start following? Or are they saying that the clubs have done nothing wrong, but are on probation anyway? Either way, neither makes much sense to me.
I know that these clubs are continuing with the unsanctioned OPDP league regardless. I know for a fact that CS at OSU prepares all the schedules for all eight clubs. If these are simply exhibition games as they claim, why the hell would OSU take care of scheduling a game between WOS and Capital United, for example???
OSU was supposed to be hosting a festival for U8 - U12 age groups this past weekend, but other than referring to the scheduled dates, their website has no other information (no schedules, list of teams registered, etc.). Does anyone know whether this festival actually happened? If so, all OPDP teams that participated would have contravened Soccer Ontario rules, because they all also played "exhibition games" on Sunday, July 16th.
DeleteThe festival was cancelled by OSU, due to lack of participants.
DeleteI notice that the EODSA is looking for a new ED and that a number of the clubs are pushing their members to apply for the job. Is this connected to all the crap that's been going on, or is it just a regular succession? A few of the clubs do seem very eager to get one of their people in there though.
ReplyDeleteAnd does anyone know what the heck is going on with the disciplinary hearing? Have the OPDP clubs been given the go ahead to keep doing whatever they want? I know that they played again this past weekend and that the schedules are all coordinated.
The ED spot has been vacant since the previous incumbent left due to terminal illness, and been in the hands of an 'acting' since.
DeleteThe OS decision is bizarre. Not found guilty, but deemed to have broken an itemized list of rules that they cannot break in the future - with it left undetermined if that is 'from now on' or next season.
Anyone know what this means?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ersl.ca/Downloads/Notice_Re_-_District_League_Operations_-_2017.pdf
The end of the ERSL? It appears the OPDP clubs will be running the Youth leagues in Ottawa from now on.
DeleteIt means the ERSL will be shutting down at the end of this season.
DeleteWhat about the U13 - U18 divisions? It sounds like OSU/WOS will only be running the DCL and DDL (U9 - U12) divisions.
DeleteCurrently, there are four categories: Regional Competitive, District Competitive, District Rec and District Developmental. The letter states District Youth Competitive and District Developmental. SO definitely, U19 - U12. The mention of youth competitive would imply some element of u13 - u18 to be taken over as well.
DeleteThe ERSL cannot continue to exist in the current form with the number of teams they have lost. Even if they choose to try to continue, there just isn't enough revenue there in RC and DR to support staff and an office - it will have to be folded into a club to run it, or be done on a volunteer basis. Open question as to if Regional Competitive will continue to exist at all.
DeleteThe Regional Competitive league is supposed to be run by Soccer Ontario, or it can delegate this. Anyone know what the options are here is ERSL were to fold? Also, has anyone been able to get any answers from Soccer Ontario or the EODSA about the disciplinary hearing? This all has a significant impact on what the leagues will look like next year, and knowing what that hearing letter says would give us some insight into what these eight clubs might be planning.
DeleteIt seems unlikely that the big Ottawa clubs are going to be interested in keeping RC viable. If they were, the EODSA board they now control would not have gutted the ERSL. Take them out of the mix and it is basically St.Anthony's playing Kingston and Seaway. OS might offer it, but it won't be viable.
DeleteWhere would those eight clubs' teams play in that case? You're talking about 80 or so teams from Ottawa, between the boys and girls U14 - U18 teams. Over 100 teams if you include the U13 divisions.
DeleteRegional is only about 60 teams total, maybe 45 from the eight clubs. Presumably EODSA either run it at the District level, or apply to run a Regional division under whatever structure they host DC in. Either way, I think Kingston soccer is going to take a real hit.
DeleteI don't think it's up to the district to run the Regional league. Ontario Soccer's rules provide that it is OS that runs it, but can delegate its operation. Not sure whether that means they can delegate it to the EODSA. But it's not the EODSA's choice as to whether a Regional league is offered or not.
DeleteRaises a lot of questions, which Soccer Ontario, the EODSA and the eight clubs involved in the OPDP are being very secretive about. Why are they going back, and why are they being allowed to finish this summer season operating an unsanctioned league (if they are returning to the local league, they must have been told what they are doing contravenes the rules, and if that's the case, why are they being allowed to continue without any consequences to their actions to date)? If the EODSA will be running the league going forward, these eight clubs must be planning to somehow exclude St. Anthony's and others - and while there is a mechanism to appeal to Soccer Ontario in those cases, there would obviously be a cost to going through that process.
ReplyDeleteWhat really makes me sick is that this now impacts people's employment at the ERSL. And really, this action is designed so that the executives at OSU and WOS can continue billing the crap out of those clubs for their own personal financial gain.
"Secretive" is an understatement... that is one of many other underhanded actions going in local soccer and intertwined with individual orgs interests. Re the OPDP I received an update from the EODSA regarding the OSA hearing but because of the small print at the bottom: "The information contained in this e-mail may contain confidential information blah blah blah" I am unable to repost. I have emailed the EODSA asking why this is not in their web page (as OSA said they would) but have not received a reply.
DeleteThe eight OPDP clubs are obviously trying to keep people from seeing the findings of the hearing. I never expected Ontario Soccer to come down hard on them, because it's clear that Ontario Soccer's priority is to prop up OSU and WOS as much as possible. But these clubs obviously feel that the findings make them look bad. Is there any way to force Ontario Soccer to provide a copy of it, like under some sort of access to information rule? Apparently they're being super unresponsive on this point, and the EODSA, well they're just acting for 8 clubs at this point.
DeleteIn Section 12 (Discipline), Procedure #4.10 of Ontario Soccer's regulations, it states that "Any part directly affected by a decision shall receive a copy of the "Findings"", but it doesn't say anywhere that other parties can't receive a copy of the findings. It does go on to say "...Minutes of a Discipline Hearing Panel shall not be given to any party except to the Governing Organization, upon such request". Based on this, it would sound as though the findings could be provided to any party, since the only explicit restriction is that no one other than the Governing Organization may receive a copy of the hearing minutes. Of course, we all know that Ontario Soccer will side with OSU and WOS, which explains why they are ignoring people's requests about the results of the hearing.
DeleteI don't understand the part about the e-mail from Soccer Ontario containing "confidential information". These clubs and some individuals running them publicly and very openly breach the rules, and they're now protected by confidentiality??? Who the hell does Soccer Ontario think they're here for - JL, BW and CS, or does it think it should maybe act in the interest of ALL members? Someone should start a petition for them to disclose this information. This is just another example of Soccer Ontario's shady dealings when it comes to special treatment for OSU and WOS.
DeleteAnd that is the exact reason why this latest conundrum (and everything else) the OSA/EODSA have touched for the past decades is a mess in local soccer... they (interest groups within the governing organizations) become the Jury (interpret the rules to how they see fit in their favour); then they Judge those rulings (by the same exact interest groups within, in their favour again) and lastly they Execute (guess again which interest groups?) the "kill order". Pathetic sample of justice if you ask me... no wonder people/teams leaving in droves...
DeleteSadly, soccer in Ontario really isn't much less corrupt than in Turkey, Macedonia or Singapore. The only difference is that in some of those countries, you're told who you have to pay to play and the recipients hide the money they've received. Here, you're told who you have to pay to play (i.e., you have to pay an OPDL club if you want Soccer Ontario to treat you fairly), and then the recipient of that money distributes it to its President.
DeleteOh yeah, I like this idea. The last time the EODSA ran a league was the indoor U9 - U12 league - they weren't able to put together a schedule for the season and instead would release the schedule on a weekly basis, sometimes the day before games. Apparently the issue was the OSU and WOS kept complaining about where and when their teams were to play, so the schedule had to be revised several times some weeks. What, is CS over at OSU going to keep using that stupid spreadsheet of his to schedule all the games? Or, they could just let the ERSL, which is already set up to operate leagues and do the scheduling, keep running it. I suppose there's no money for JL in allowing the ERSL to run the league though.
ReplyDeleteAnswer to the question of this article:
ReplyDeleteNO
(https://www.eodsa.ca/ViewArticle.aspx?NewsArticleID=12208).
Everyone here (parents, coaches, admins, referees, volunteers, fans of the game, kids who play, persons from all sides) who most likely hold a job, a career or in school and have family and who as well have every bit of common sense to make day-to-day crucial decisions for the important things in life as to what is right or wrong, this is a huge collective slap in their face. This is bigger than the "small committee" documenting/opposing this. Personally an "I told you so" is not enough and instead a "So long, and thanks for all the fish" is way more appropriate. I am now going to go and play with all the Dolphins, prepare my printer for Exhibition game sheets (a.k.a Festivals galore) and roll out the red carpet to all the PSGs, Barcas, Man. U., Boca Juniors, etc. solicitations from the real world... see you ocean side!
The schedule submitted could not be used as evidence because it was submitted anonymously? Of course it was - the club started harassing parents to turn in the person that leaked the information (a la Trump)!
ReplyDeleteMr. Stead could not verify the legitimacy of the e-mail that he allegedly sent? Was his name not in the "From" line???
Their definition of exhibition games is incomplete, because they forgot that the definition goes on to say that exhibition game "have no set schedule of games".
They only submitted game sheets for May 14th games? What about all the other weeks, when games have in fact been played???
How could the EODSA have provided blanket coverage for exhibition games to these teams, when Ontario Soccer's regulations provide that a district can only provide blanket coverage to a league, for exhibition game in which only teams from that league participate??? I thought they said the OPDP was not a league??? It either is a (unsanctioned) league, or its not a league and blanket coverage for exhibition games could not have been provided! In other words, these games could not have been sanctioned (except that they were sanctioned by the compromised EODSA???).
So in the end, they're not guilty, but they can't keep doing what they've been doing, except for the fact that they are still doing what they've been doing the whole time. All those games continue to be played, based on an invalid blanket authorization for an unsanctioned league's teams to play regularly scheduled exhibition games (which schedule may have been sent from a certain individual from a certain club, except that he doesn't really remember whether he sent it or whether someone else sent it from his e-mail address). Parents - your children are in good hands. Great role models you're exposing them to!
Exhibition games always required game sheets. All the information is on the EODSA website. If the OPDP teams are not submitting proper game sheets, then the games are not sanctioned. I did not realize that the teams had to be in the league also - I thought they just had to be registered with EODSA (eg player cards etc).
DeleteOPDP games are ongoing. I know someone who was asked to move up from the lower tier ERSL team in a club to their OPDP team in a game last weekend.
Under the OSA's regulations, it's the league that is provided with the blanket coverage - the wording is explicit. The gamesheets still need to be submitted, but they don't have to have games approved beforehand. The issue here is that in the disciplinary panel found that the games that have been played were sanctioned. This isn't possible, and they are clearly trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. As you noted, the gamesheets are submitted, so the OSA was aware that the games were/continue to be played. They're just trying to sweep this under the rug and let these clubs continue playing outside of the rules that they are so adamant everyone else must abide by.
DeleteOntario Soccer's rules actually also provide for another alternative for blanket approval of exhibition games. In addition to providing blanket approval to a league, the district can provide blanket approval to all of its members. If that is the case, then any team can play exhibition games against other EODSA members without seeking prior approval. I don't know whether that is the case, so I would be interested if any clubs outside of the "dirty eight" could comment on whether they have blanket approval for exhibition games against other EODSA members. If not, then I agree that the OPDP games could not have been sanctioned by the EODSA and these clubs should be subject to a penalty of $1,000 per game I believe.
DeleteRegardless of whether blanket approval was or was not provided, Ontario Soccer has become a complete joke with this ruling - I've spoken to a number of people from various clubs (including OPDP) who can't believe this panel would accept Craig Stead's denial that he isn't certain of the validity of the e-mail that was sent from his e-mail address. This guy should be ashamed of himself. Sets a poor example for the children.
On the EODSA website under the competitions section it does say:
Delete"Hosting District Games
The EODSA grants annual blanket approval for all exhibition games played between EODSA teams within the EODSA's boundaries. As a result, any two teams that are registered members of the EODSA can arrange for a sanctioned exhibition game between themselves. All players participating in the game must be registered."
I read the report that came out as well, and it didn't seem to add up on the CS email. I asked in my club about it and they said the key item was around a schedule that didn't match up when EODSA staff reviewed all exhibition game sheets that come in to them.
NOT GUILTY-Unanimous decision by Ontario Soccer Discipline panel finds seven Ottawa Clubs Not Guilty
ReplyDeleteJuly 28, 2017
Sorry, but I did not expect any other outcome. We all know what this is about. It is always about power (control) and money. The big eight obviously are threatened by the academies. It means a loss of players, club status (in terms of wins) which ultimately means money to these clubs. This is at the least very messy soccer politics and at worse dirty soccer politics. They can spin it however they want. We know the truth of what was going on.
ReplyDeleteI believed the better line of action would have been to take this to the Ontario Human Rights Commission. Because there was outright discrimination towards certain clubs occurring this summer.
Please note that in the decision by the panel it states a formal process (for league) must be conducted and it must be inclusive to all interested clubs. Do you not think the Panel recognized some clubs were being frozen out?
There is room for profit and non-profit clubs.
Organizations that are blind to progress or change and then do everything they can be maintain their monopoly run the huge risk of becoming extinct (or second best) in of themselves.
But stay tuned cause this was only the warm-up, OZ Optic Merch.'s turn for dealing with EODSA and OSA comes in the fall. And that may be a good deal more difficult to wiggle out of.
Bottomline, if any of you watched a keynote speech by Jason Devos ... think of the kids (players) first. The collective "we", whoever they are, sure as hell did not do that this summer.
The panel knows exactly what's going on. Jason Devos knows exactly what's going on. The problem is that Ontario Soccer won't do anything about it because they're desperate to keep the OPDL going. If they took the appropriate action, the two OPDL clubs in Ottawa would be out, and they would be left with no teams in Ottawa.
ReplyDeleteA legitimate disciplinary committee would have had a real issue with someone claiming that they don't know whether they sent an e-mail. A legitimate organization would have a better grasp of its own rules - but I wouldn't call Soccer Ontario is not a legitimate organization.
The executives who run the big clubs are worried that the academy stream will continue to grow, which would result in less registrations for their clubs, which would in turn result in less income for these individuals. That's what it's about in a nutshell - the disciplinary committee knows this, Ontario Soccer know this, and Jason Devos knows this.
I think Ontario Soccer is getting a little desperate about keeping the OPDL going. Right now there are five clubs who haven't been able to field all teams they are technically required to (including OSU). Of the clubs who have met the requirements for number of teams, some joined only recently and have only had to enter in a couple of age groups, so expect some of them to have problems fielding teams in the future (one of the new ones hasn't even been able to put in 2 boys/2 girls teams). There are currently only 8 original OPDL clubs that have been able to field the required 8 teams.
DeleteAs for the level of play, I find I'm always surprised if I see a team that impresses me, unfortunately.
The OSA has a lot to answer for with the OPDL. The excessive costs have pushed a lot of change, much of it negative, to create marginal benefit for a small number of kids at the expense of the vast majority. WOSC came into existence because of the financial need, and it is nowhere close to the old Kanata club. I am not optimistic about Ottawa City, but to be fair too early to judge. The OSA is directly responsible for forcing its OPDL clubs to become pyramid schemes.
DeleteWill be interesting to see whether Cumberland is in fact added to OPDL this afternoon as is rumoured. It would show that OS is completely out of touch with what is going on in Ottawa. I kind of hope they are added, since it will weaken the other Ottawa OPDL teams, as well as the ERSL - may as well take the big bath and go all in.
DeleteAnyone know whether any of the existing clubs might be kicked out (or looking to get out)?
Ironic.... from WOSC website
ReplyDeleteVALUES
Integrity: We are fiercely committed to doing the right thing, in the right way, at the right time, with the right people; we believe in what we do.
Accountability: We are open and transparent in how we make decisions; we know our roles and look for ways to enhance our work; we keep our promises.
Ontario Soccer will go out of its way to review and punish "major concerns advertising teams on a web site"; but not move an inch to review anonymous emails sent by concerned parents threatened by expulsion from youth soccer. Your digital rights are worth less than mine.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, OSA rules actually allow for the existence of sanctioned and registered teams that are not in any league. Seems very odd, no idea what legitimate scenario that was intended to cover, but it ends up being an important point in determining whether or not OPDP was deemed sanctioned by EODSA
ReplyDeleteThere was never a question that teams do not necessarily have to participate in a league - I think everyone agreed on that. The issue comes down to the fact that these clubs obviously had a scheduled series of games (one individual at one club drew up the schedules for hundreds of games, most of which did not involve his club). Ontario Soccer had the evidence (a copy of the schedule), but subjectively chose to disregard it and accept a lie from this one individual.
DeleteAnd that: S-U-B-J-E-C-T-I-V-I-T-Y is exactly what I mean from the very start. That has been there for decades (plus added collusion and nepotism now). It's what caused the whole fiasco back in 2003-2004 and the ongoing saga in courts right now. It's what caused a small club to be charged $5000 for participating in a community festival. It's what decides which clubs are allowed to have "Youth programs" and small clubs not. It's what let's the OPDP clubs go scott free. It is the interest groups (clubs) controlling the agenda who decide what is right and wrong in that toxic environment, even though the rest of humanity know differently. However, thanks to the internet all newbies to the city will have access to all this information and can decide what other options they would prefer to go. Me sour? yes. Defeated? No. Like I said before this is just a prolonged campaign. We just need to be like flies chipping away at the share of the market and go with other powerful allies within and without.
DeleteA team sanctioned/registered with the EODSA/SO that doesn't play in a league would make sense for a team that has no reasonable competition locally, so would arrange friendly games with teams at their own level. This would still allow them to play in tournaments, Ontario Cup, etc. That's what the rule is intended for. It wasn't intended for people who operate the businesses under the guise of a not-for-profit organization (i.e., JL) to collude with other people operating businesses under the guise of other not-for-profit organizations, in order to further their own financial benefits.
DeleteUntil these clubs start to consider the possibility that the main reason players are leaving is to get away from them, not to go to something else, things will not improve. They will continue in their mediocrity and will prevent others who want to offer something better from actually being able to do so.
ReplyDeleteThe true irony is these clubs are actually driving the creation of the competition they are trying to suppress.
Interesting perspective on the Community Club vs. Academy topic where a lot of this all originated from. I think both have their own strengths and weakness as well as mandates. Players flow both directions so I don't agree that it is one way for, club to academy. I think this project was to help clubs develop their programming for not just teams but their referees, fields and a better overall experience. It's hard to fault them for trying - all those areas that community clubs (regardless of their size) have to coordinate and manage. I think they clearly felt that some academies (not all) don't have to invest equally to derive the same benefits of the league system, so they found a different model. If that drives academies to play other academies then so be it.
ReplyDeleteThe OPDP clubs actually changed their criteria three times because one group kept (unexpectedly) meeting their "criteria". This had nothing to do with referees or fields. All the games continue to be played at the same fields, with the same referees as before. Don't be so naïve.
DeleteOne thing that isn't clear from the ruling is what the supposed issue was with the ERSL running the league under the format that was discussed. The format was agreed to and information was distributed to all clubs - Sunday games at centralized locations. ERSL was on board with this. I know that one of the conditions the OPDP clubs added to keep St. Anthony's and Ottawa Futsal out was that clubs had to have one team per age group, per gender. I always thought this was what the ERSL would not go along with. Unfortunately, the disciplinary panel didn't think to include anyone from the ERSL as part of the hearing - how convenient.
DeleteAs noted way up in comments, it is hard to consider a club that has a huge operating budget, numerous paid positions, and 6500+ members drawn from all over the city and countryside a "community club". There are no club boundaries and they all overlap significantly. In fact, the closest club to being an actual community oriented club is St Anthony's (they have represented a small urban community for decades longer than OSU or WOS have existed).
DeleteThe "Community Club" tagline is a euphemism at best. If we called it "Corporate Club" that might be more accurate, but would not have the same ring when used for political gain. There are community driven soccer programs, but they are mostly not even part of Ontario Soccer, let alone these giant clubs.
Re 1 team per age group per gender. OCSC does not have a U9 girls team at this level. OSU has multiple boys teams per age level. The clubs already do not all meet this requirement. Ideally, it makes sense from a logistical perspective (so all teams get a game in the same place on the same night under the observation of both TD's - all excellent ideas). However, the rule also forces programs to potentially field weaker teams at the wrong level to comply. Logistically, it would be easy to separate that rule by gender... eg so OSU can submit 2 boys teams at each age group (8 total) and 1 girls team per age group (4 total) and KNSA can submit 1 boys team per age group (4 total) and 0 girls teams. That does not mess up the system significantly (so long as appropriate field groupings are available). The principle at U9-U12 is voluntary selection of playing level, as scores are not recorded and relegation and promotion are not considered. Rules should not hinder this principle.
DeleteExceptions were made for Hotspurs and Ottawa City re: the 1 team per age group and gender requirement. They were very selective when deciding who to make exceptions for. The rule is intended to ensure only bigger clubs are allowed to play there. It has nothing to do with player development - my U12 boy won't be better or worse if his club has a U10 girls team. I also don't buy the idea that it forces clubs to pay attention to both genders - I think supply and demand will sort that out and that you might even end up with certain programs that focus on the girls side and might do a better job with them than a club that tries to be everything to everyone (but is really just a bank machine for their GM or President).
DeleteI had spoken to a coach from one of the clubs and asked what changes they were planning for their development program - he said "nothing is changing". Another club sent an e-mail to their coaches stating "The only thing that will change is that this is now called the Ottawa PDP (Ottawa Player Development Program)".
And it had nothing to do with bringing up the level of competition. One of the clubs' U12 teams has been very, very weak since they began at the U9 age group. I always felt bad that this club forced this particular team to play in tier 1 (which really is quite weak to begin with) - they would lose games by 15 - 20 goals regularly and you would see tears in the kids' eyes after the games. This year this club finally decided that this team should play tier 2 instead. Until the OPDP came along that is, and they had to force them into the same division again. Definitely not in these kids' interest, but the club doesn't really care.
The clubs were found NOT GUILTY because they broke no rules.
ReplyDeleteStop your online crying , and politicing and move on.
You're behaving like little babies. Take off your diapers, put on your big boy pants on and move on. Enough already
If you did actually read the findings, then you should think about taking some night classes to improve your reading/comprehension skills. "Not guilty", but the clubs are being directed to proceed with one of two alternatives? Note that they explicitly state that under either alternative, the competitions must be open to all clubs. And don't be naïve - people are now watching closely for any slip-ups by these clubs.
Deletep-o-l-i-t-i-c-i-z-i-n-g --yep night school, more like JK, for you since you are such an old boy with big pants. Got to love online blogs, they never go away...
DeleteNot guilty, but not innocent either. "Not guilty" with conditions as in "not guilty enough that we want to fine you yet"... and largely because OSU and WOS have put Ontario Soccer under considerable political pressure due to their participation in OPDL. Before criticizing others of being political, consider that we would not be having this discussion at all if the clubs had actually played by the rules and entered the teams in the ERSL. The clubs created the politics (the clubs are full of internal politics also).
DeleteBy the verdict, the clubs are now supposed to open their secret league up and invite programs like KNSA and St Anthony's to participate. Have they done this?
It'll be a cold day in hell before you see OSU willing to play an exhibition game against Futuro. They've been asked countless times, but refuse because they worry that their parents will like what they see on the other side (it's a lot easier to avoid the issue and start phoning their parents to switch than it is to actually improve your program). I still ask parents from OSU all the time if they can talk to their coach about arranging a game - they just roll their eyes now.
DeleteYes, there are a lot of shady dealings within these clubs. Like the George Nelms deal, the OPDP "sanctioned exhibition games", and this...
Deletehttp://www.ersl.ca/ViewArticle.aspx?NewsID=1435
Or, wait a minute, is this the right one...
https://www.whitecapsfc.com/youth/programs/ottawa
But don't OSU and Gloucester have some sort of working arrangement? Hmmm, I wonder what's going on here?
Craig S? You must habe been fretting all this to actually keep tabs ha!
ReplyDeleteThat guy's such a loser.
DeleteThe guy has been organizing this league secretly, so I'm pretty sure he realizes that he is doing something wrong...
DeleteAnd don't forget what OSU is trying to do to the Ottawa Futsal League - a couple of seasons ago OSU started up their own futsal league using the website wwww.ottawafutsal.com, not to be confused with the OFL's site, www.futsalottawa.com. Apparently they don't even care if anyone registers for their league, so long as it creates problems for the OFL. Very poor character.
DeleteRJROA
ReplyDeleteKeep beating the drum for futuro and knsa. Why aren't you discussing the fact that they both broke rules and were caught by Ontario soccer hiding their business in community clubs? Rules broken and both clubs were warned to stop doing so. No comment on this ? Since you have because the moral compass of soccer in ottawa, maybe you want to look into the guidelines for not for profit legislation to see if St. Anthony's and Ottawa Futsal club are complying. Both these clubs have become hives for soccer parasites that take teams and players from other clubs to build their business. Don't believe me, look at FSTA took 3 teams from kemptville soccer club and moved them to ottawa Futsal. Why are you not making a fuss over that?
Can't wait for your reply on these points.
I agree about blogs never going away.
Something stinks with you, your blog and these 2 clubs and it's time to get to the bottom of this stench. Better yet I think I'll open everyone's eyes after investigating the non for profit legislation. Stay tuned , the fun has just began ...
Yes, competition is good - but you seem to be opposed to it if OSU has to compete for players and registration? Why does OSU threaten to suspend players if they are caught paying for extra training elsewhere? I'm guessing because it eventually hits JL's pocketbook? You should take a drive around and see how many of your players are going for extra training.
DeleteAnd please, everyone knows what kind of person JL is - that futsal league was only started up after OSU wasn't able to prevent KNSA players registering with Futsal Ottawa for the summer season. Had it been under other circumstances, it might have looked different, but OSU and JL come across as petty and pathetic.
I'm pretty sure if someone were to look into it, OSU and WOS would be considered to be operating as for-profit enterprises. And I'm sure their members would be up in arms if they really knew how much JL and BW are being paid directly/indirectly. Of course, that will never be disclosed and members know they will be forced to leave if they even ask the question.
As for breaking rules, these academy's websites listed teams who are registered with affiliated clubs, but whose players get supplemental training from these academies. Really not that big a deal and no one directly involved had any complaints - other than OSU and WOS.
Could you clarify the part about FTSA? Are you saying someone took three teams of kids hostage? Did they have something on these kids/families and blackmailed them? Or did these families simply feel that the FTSA training program was superior and chose to go there of their own free will? Please clarify.
DeleteCompetition is healthy and ideally would push people to improve their product. Unfortunately, the big clubs in Ottawa are filled with people with poor character.
As for soccer parasites, those so-called "parasites" are on the field with kids every day of the week and do a great job. JL on the other hand gets paid to swear at little kids. If they were his own kids I wouldn't care.
Victor Von Dumbo! (ottawa-soccer.blogspot.com). Welcome and thanks for keeping tabs. One's work is done when you can easily push buttons... : ) Google analytics is the best. Personally I don't know nor care about any of the clubs or academies you mentioned. I do however care about a specific team (yes only one) that was left out from competing against your OPDP Sunday games because of your "disagreement" with academies. A team of kids that worked hard to get where they are and you nor your peers (and possibly the academies) didn't give a crap of the collateral casualties. However you and the eight large clubs have the weight of numbers, and by Canadian values, should have been the "better person", not the bully. On principle leaving kids out (of any stock) is prejudice and I would even say it is against most commercial rules (oligopoly by competition bureau standards). So, "c-o-m-p-l-e-t-i-o-n" you said (competition I presume you meant and blame your phone for the error); yes competition is what will save you from the fear of academies. It's what will save local soccer from splitting into the many pieces it is so close from happening. Lastly, like I said from the very beginning when all this started, bring your best your SUNDAY field and meet my best fair-and-square. That is all I wanted out of all this. How about that for fun?
DeleteTake teams and players from other clubs? I get calls and e-mails all the time from people at OSU about moving my kids there. They're notorious for that type of thing. Granted, the OSA has given OPDL clubs the green light to poach any non-OPDL players they want because they are desperate to keep it from falling apart, but they aren't allowed to poach players from other OPDL clubs - yet OSU does it anyway. I know a family who was approached by an OSU parent while they were at their son's hockey practice. But the guy who approached them didn't even have a kid who plays hockey - they found out when the kid had hockey practice and had someone go to the rink to make it look like he just happened to be there and struck up a conversation because they had a mutual acquaintance ("hey don't you know so and so? By the way, your son should leave Hotspurs OPDL team and join OSU's OPDL team").
DeleteAnd what about the Hotspurs '03 team from a couple of years ago that was "taken" by OSU? The coach wasn't given a tier 1 team to coach, so OSU said they would take him and anyone who would follow him. And, they happened to disagree with Hotspurs and felt that this team should be playing tier 1 (not because they were good enough to play tier 1, but because they were willing to pay to be told their kids should be playing tier 1).
And it's "the fun has just begun". Not "began". Begun!
I know nothing about FSTA, but I am pretty sure that OSU would gladly take quality players from Kemptville. Note that if Kemptville had a highly skilled u9-u12 team, they would not be allowed to participate in the OPDP. The players would most likely end up at OSU. This is by design.
DeleteIt is probably reasonable to call Kemptville Soccer a "community club". There is a very big difference between Kemptville Soccer and OSU. As a start, OSU has an enrolled population almost 2x larger than the entire town of Kemptville!
OSU and WOS are "giant clubs" not "community clubs" and to suggest that they represent a community is disingenuous when they draw from the entire city, actively "taking players" from every other program in the city. There are no boundaries for soccer clubs. How can one suggest that a large not-for-profit corporation where individuals (administrators!) within the corporation profit, is somehow more altruistic than a small for-profit academy where the coaches who run it profit? Is MEC "better" than Trailhead? Are we seriously arguing about the right for an entity to exist based solely on it's incorporation structure? As justification to prevent kids from playing and learning soccer in the Ontario Soccer approved program that they choose? As a parent, I'm happy to pay my kids' coaches! I'm less enthusiastic with the idea of paying for administrators whose sole job is to empire build via politics.
Functionally, OSU Force Academy is no different than Futuro, and no more altruistic. Each is a year-round academy with paid coaches embedded in a club. The costing is roughly the same. The program commitments are roughly comparable. It's hard to expect quality development from a program that doesn't offer paid coaches and quality facilities. The difference is that St Anthony's is not excluding kids from playing in a league whereas OSU is.
Ontario Soccer explicitly said in their ruling vs the OPDP clubs that no programs are to be excluded. When is CS's "exhibition league" going to be opened up to all programs?
Well said. A very good summary of the situation in the Ottawa soccer community.
DeleteYou are a joke sir. What about the OSU coaches and the WOS coaches coming to my team asking to talk to parents about their kids. Player movement happens every year and OSU and WOS are the worst poachers out there. Futsal for years trained kids from 3 to 9 years old only to lose them because they didn't have a summer program. They also take club registered teams to play in the league and don't charge player registration costs, I know because I have put my teams in Ottawa Futsal (OFC) for year and now that there is district futsal league in the Ottawa Futsal District league(ODFL) which is a completely different entity that takes club teams not individual teams. My club registers the kids and team and not Ottawa Futsal or ODFL. We play as our club team in the Futsal leagues. We just pay a league registration, and not once has OFC asked me to keep my kids in their umbrella in the summer unlike OSU and WOS coaches that have tried to poach my kids from the teams.
DeleteVictor? No, nothing? Bring your best to your SUNDAY games and meet my best fair-and-square? Regularly on schedule? And all the other best from rural clubs, small clubs? No? Just silence? Or, no last minute gallant "white knight in shining armour" offer to the SEGREGATED clubs/teams to come back into your fold? Or, no more threats/foul language or remarks? Good for you. You know anything you do, any action you take, any response you post, just proves my point and lays it bare open in the field of Ottawa public opinion. Prove me wrong you can with in either field! You can't even publicize or market your SUNDAY league and you want to give lessons in "completion"?
ReplyDeleteMy personal observation of this summer is that its pretty much the same as in past years. The teams are training the same amount as in the past (some will say it is sufficient, some will say it's not enough and some will say too much - but it's unchanged from the past), we're playing on the same fields, with the same referees, against the same teams. At our son's age group, the only difference really is that Futuro and KNSA teams aren't there, as well as Seaway Valley. The KNSA and Seaway Valley teams weren't very good, but better than some teams. The Futuro team played in this division without a bunch of their top players who played up, but were still one of the stronger teams without those kids. There was also a Surad team and you would also have some clubs forcing a 2nd team in the division (WOS and Cumberland). So no difference in the facilities, refereeing or training, and the level of competition overall is probably about the same (this is in part because WOS and Cumberland aren't entering 2nd teams; Surad was pretty weak; SV & KNSA were average; Futuro was strong).
ReplyDeleteI'm not a fan of the Sunday games. All that's happened is that we've moved weeknight games to Sundays, and moved Sunday practices to a weeknight. Granted, games are sometimes further than practices, but that's only a handful of nights at the most. I've found the Sunday games have really restricted our options for tournaments/festivals and actual exhibition games. As for the TD's being able to see more of the players more often, I haven't seen that translate into a difference on the field. They would probably have more of an impact by attending practices, but I guess that's not feasible.
I have found the secrecy pretty annoying.
Your point about TD's spending more time with all teams at training is one of the reasons I prefer the academy system. The size of the organization is more manageable for the TD to spend time in training with all the teams. It's easy for kids to get lost in the shuffle at the giant clubs.
ReplyDeleteI assume this means that if BM has put in writing that clubs are not to be avoiding competition, the clubs are free to continue avoiding any other clubs that would make them look bad on the field?
ReplyDeletehttp://ottawasoccer.com/message-from-brian-mason-eodsa-president/
I take that to mean that all member clubs should reach out to play exhibition games with other member clubs and that in all cases, clubs should try to work together to make games happen. Perhaps that would be easier with some pairings of clubs than others, but it at least sounds like an effort to prevent certain clubs from strong-arming other clubs to keep them from playing excluded clubs as seems to have been the case this summer.
DeletePossibly I am being optimistic though? I think it is worth a try for previously excluded programs to request exhibition games. Especially where this is normally done by email (ie in writing), it would be fairly hard for a club to repeatedly ignore another club at all age levels without it contravening the Ontario Soccer decision.
I read it as "everyone should work together to arrange exhibition games, but because the guidance is so subjective, we won't enforce anything if a club can just come up with any excuse to avoid playing certain other clubs". I don't think I'm being pessimistic, given what these clubs have done (and not just this summer - the threads above outline many examples of how these clubs are trying to take control of soccer in Ottawa for the financial benefit of certain individuals). JL, BM and their cronies know there is no way to enforce this, particularly with Ontario Soccer backing them.
DeleteDoes this mean no more blanket coverage for exhibition games (including league games being masked as exhibition games)?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.eodsa.ca/ViewArticle.aspx?NewsArticleID=12252
This is what I meant about "automatic approval" above (www.eodsa.ca/DisplayPage.aspx?PageID=122). Literally: all you did was go through the previous online system, press "send", you would instantly get an automated email approval. Heck, anyone with high school computer skills could have DDos it if they wanted. The previous "process" was such a loophole designed to cover the OPDP competition; but opened the door as well for anyone looking to bypass the official cumbersome tournaments/festivals system. I am going to test the new CTMS system and see what the turnaround time is for approvals and if the loophole is still possible. Is Ontario Soccer watching this blog? It would seem like they are...
DeleteSeems to me that in addition to creating problems for everyone this past summer, these 8 clubs have now made it an administrative PITA to play exhibition games, all in an effort to financially benefit a few individuals. Thanks so much JL, CS and BM. And Ron Smale - you should be removed for allowing things to get to this point.
DeleteThis is clear as mud! www.eodsa.on.ca -> competitions -> exhibition games -> EODSA Exhibition Game Process -> "This is not an approval process but a reporting process. Clubs still have blanket approval to play exhibition games between EODSA Clubs within EODSA boundaries. This process will just ensure that OSA policies are being followed and Discipline and Special Incidents are being dealt with appropriately. Updated Feb 2014"
DeleteAs always, OS and EODSA are doing whatever they can to give certain clubs wiggle room. It sounds to me like in the past you had to submit one AHEG form and were then covered by the blanket approval; the only difference now seems to be that the AHEG form is now to be submitted online (and you are then covered by the blanket approval).
DeleteI guess they are reading this forum. See link - blanket coverage has been revoked and every exhibition game requires approval. Thank you OSU/WOS/Gloucester Hornets/Internationals/Cumberland/Capital United/Ottawa City/Hotspurs. I suppose in your organizations this means more admin time, which means more $$$ to certain individuals. Special thanks go out to JL, CS and BW. I wouldn't want my dog hanging around you guys.
Deletehttps://www.eodsa.ca/ViewArticle.aspx?NewsArticleID=12266
Anyone know what interest the Vancouver Whitecaps have in telling families that they should move their kids to OSU? I get that OSU and JL benefit from increased registration $$$, but I can't see there being any real financial benefit for VW. To be clear, these are kids who will definitely never play professionally or in university/college.
ReplyDeleteI scratch my head about that one too. I know they're pressuring some of the Hotspurs players to move to OSU. And Gloucester's website includes an outright lie about their "Whitecaps" program - it refers to an "individual learning plan" that no club in Ottawa or Ontario uses. Yet I know of two programs in Ottawa that do this. Keep in mind that this deal between Gloucester and Whitecaps is tied in with OSU (who is trying to officially distance itself in order to make nice with TFC, but unofficially you've got a threesome going with OSU/Gloucester/Whitecaps for marketing purposes) - so it doesn't surprise me that they would throw out lies and hope to catch some loser that doesn't know any better.
DeleteHard to feel sorry for Hotspurs about losing players though, since they were in bed with the devil this summer.
So the OPDP games continued this weekend, following the same schedule that was posted on this site (which Ontario Soccer chose to ignore by accepting CS' bs about not being sure whether he sent the schedules out). Does anyone know whether these 8 clubs have been applying for AHEG's for each game as Ontario Soccer claims is now required, or was that bs too?
ReplyDeleteI saw some nice good games too. tight results, quite competitive... No team won 10-0... there must be something good there?
DeleteMy kid's team has played against some of those OPDP teams in the spring - the stronger OPDP teams were still quite weak and nowhere near our kid's team's level. But, have two weak teams play against one another and the game will likely be close. Remember, these are the same teams as in the past, minus the Futuro and Seaway Valley teams - Futuro were always the most technically advanced team in each age group, and SV was always around the middle. The overall level of play in OPDP is weaker than under the ERSL and you would see this clearly if those teams were ever willing to play against Futuro. But they won't, so that when parents watch OPDP games between mediocre teams, they think what they are seeing is "nice" and "competitive".
DeleteMy perception has been as above - they've eliminated the top (and maybe the odd weak) team and we are now left with an average level of play.
DeleteThe real question remains unanswered though - are they now applying for exhibition game permits one at a time ahead of the games, or are they simply ignoring the OSA's new position? I'm in no way involved with the administration of it, and don't really want to ask because the coaches and execs look at parents suspiciously if we ask that kind of stuff (yes, a very healthy atmosphere).
For what it's worth, I've been hearing grumblings that this type of arrangement will continue in the winter - that a certain club will come up with unverifiable excuses as to why they can't play against another.
If they won't stop the OPDP, they can't really complain about this...
Deletehttp://fcbescola.fcbarcelona.com/ottawa/edl/
http://www.visionsoccer.ca/edl-ligue-aa/
It was just a matter of time and I can see things snowballing from here. Soccer in Ontario has become a farce anyway.
It's actually bigger than that...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.eastdevelopmentleague.com/
Granted, most of these are groups that have been shut out from playing anywhere, but interesting that Kingston-Belleville FC (an ORA) is part of it. Will be interesting to see where this goes.
This is going to be a mess, many of the entities are unsanctioned. I wonder about what the formal relationship between FCB and the Escola program is.
DeleteOSA and EODSA have done such a poor job in handling youth soccer that unsanctioned youth now appears to be growing faster than sanctioned. EODSA's drive to create (illegal) club territories and stop programs that increase competition for the OSUs and WOSCs is blowing up in their face.
I won't presume to know but FCB-Escola is likely what my club got offered a few years back by Boca Juniors, a franchise- percentage based comissioned branding. I am 100% social activist/community coop advocate; but in society there is no pure model where businesses don't have some input. I am surprised a local Uber-Taxi experience hasn't come to Ottawa soccer... yet. Eodsa is a farce front. Ontario Soccer doesn't have an ear to the ground and has not been welcoming to new clubs, ideas, or fresh blood. Personally anything that challenges the status-quo I welcome.
DeleteI don't condone what's going on here, and I was strongly against what the 8 OPDP clubs did/are doing as well. But if OSU, WOS, Gloucester, Internationals, Cumberland, Ottawa City, Capital United and Hotspurs are allowed to continue with their league (and just to be clear, it is a league and they are still operating it), then BCN and LR should be allowed to do the same. If nothing else, at least BCN and LR being up front about it, as opposed to the OPDP clubs, who have been lying to parents and officials for months now.
Delete"development league", "development program" ...mot du jour, sigh :(
DeleteAnyone know whether there has been any progress on this?
DeleteLooks like KNSA has also joined this group now. That makes two ORA's. Would be interesting to see what's going on in the background with Soccer Ontario.
DeleteI would love to hear what OSU and WOS are saying about this. OSU complained to the EODSA about BCN once they started operating a location in Barrhaven, and WOS complained to the EODSA about Benfica Royals because they're in the west end. This is really no different from what they were doing with the OPDP though, so a person would have to be a hypocrite to argue against this. Oh, wait...I forgot who runs OSU and WOS.
ReplyDeleteAny news on what the OPDP clubs are doing for their winter league? Haven't heard much since they decided to take it over from the ERSL.
ReplyDeleteThis certainly seem to be moving slowly on this initiative. Anyone I have spoken to is annoyingly vague about it. It would be pretty bad if this didn't get off the ground, after pulling it away from the ERSL.
DeleteThe ERSL appealed to the OSA on the grounds that the EODSA membership had voted to have the ERSL run that program through Summer 2018. That was only going to have one outcome, so the EODSA reversed the decision....for now.
DeleteIt looks like the EODSA is running the winter league after all, instead of the ERSL. OSU/JL are running a separate league for U11 & U12, although it looks like they're planning on entering teams in both. The U11/U12 league had limited spaces and surprise, surprise, those spots filled up with OSU, WOS, Internationals, Gloucester, Cumberland, Ottawa City and Capital United. As someone mentioned earlier, Hotspurs were left out.
DeletePlay in Both?? u11 and u12 can't play 2 games in a week. that is what my son who plays for City was told when he tried to join another league that he has played in since he was 5 years old. He is devastated having to choose to play competitive with City or play with his friends in the winter. he's done both for years now. If these teams and players are playing twice in a week, hope the clubs get fined... oh wait, the ERSL is run by these clubs.
DeleteFined? That's like the hearing where they wanted to fine KNSA for playing against FCB Escola. When they were shown evidence that some OPDP clubs also participated in the FCB games, no fines were imposed on anyone. I would have thought everyone would have been fined in that case, but what do I know?
DeleteI thought OSU was trying to start up a separate winter league that they (and their executives) would profit from. I had heard the rumours back in the summer. I would think other clubs would be put off by that type of arrangement, but I had originally thought the same thing about the OPDP, yet those clubs followed them along on that.
ReplyDeleteYes, OSU is trying to get clubs to play in their Polar Bear league instead of the ERSL WDL. Not clear who actually owns that league though - I always thought it was run by an individual tied to OSU, but nothing is ever clear with these guys.
DeleteLooks like Hotspurs might not be part of this. Remember back in the spring when they were being squeezed out of the OPDP? Here we go again.
The Polar Bear League will be 9v9. It's entirely possible that certain teams during the Winter hockey months will not have enough players to field a 9v9 team for all games. No need for conspiracy theories, it might simply be a numbers issue. If you look at the EODSA Winter league, which I imagine is 7v7, the Hotspurs teams are there.
DeleteThe Hotpsurs teams are in the EODSA WDL because the registration information was available to all EODSA members. The Polar Bear 9v9 league was kept quiet until it filled up with the 7 original OPDP clubs. This was by design, so they can say that it was open to everyone, but it just happened to fill up quickly. There were rumours of something like this happening all summer.
DeleteHotspurs are fairly high on the list to get their throats cut. Small club, overlapping territory, and club president also in charge of that rather awkward ERSL, which had the gall to appeal a decision.
DeleteThat club has made some questionable decisions in the past few years.
DeleteSeems like a lot of sour grapes.
ReplyDeletePeople are allowed to play exhibition games.
Teams are allowed to play exhibition games, but when there is a clear intent to exclude a specific program, there is a problem.
Deletere "Futuro is over-rated" everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the fact is that at all age levels, the Futuro teams are among the strongest in the city. If a league is about grouping together similar level teams such that the kids get the best development opportunities, then it is a real shame for the OSU Black kids to not get to play vs Futuro. It is also a complete waste of time for the OSU Black teams to play a bunch of weak "T1" teams and smash them 10-0 or more. It is also pointless for those weak teams to play game after game where they get blown out.
This should be about developing children, and when one looks at it from that perspective, the way things *should* be done is very clear. Unfortunately a small group of "adults" running the large clubs, league, and district are thinking about themselves, not the kids.
Strong at U 13 but they lost to Cap U. once and did not take the Ontario Cup (Which is now watered down a bit due to OPDL).
DeleteU12s played up but finished under .500.
U14s played up and did not impress.
Their SAAC team was strong.
People will often leave to go to them but will often stay short term. Rarely you will see someone leave Futuro and return to Futuro. Good club, totally over-rated and the parents are laughable when they say people fear them or are jealous of the program. lol.
The trouble with playing up is you are facing players that are more physically developed and can push younger technical players off the ball. This can be especially true for players in the 12-15 year old range (huge size disparities). It would be better for these teams to face good competition at their own age level, but that is sometimes a challenge locally. Ideally (contrary to what seems to be the philosophy of one very prominent local club), a team should only be winning about 50% of the time if they are playing a suitable level of competition. So the U12 Futuro playing up in U13 had a fairly appropriate level of competition. In the case of the U13's, when you go 11-1 with a +63 goal differential, that is an indication that the team was probably too strong for the league, and could probably benefit from stiffer competition. Sure the U13's did not win the Ontario Cup - they lost in the quarter final to Woodbridge, who advanced to the final. That is still a pretty good success. Woodbridge is well known to be a strong club and you expect to hit stiffer competition coming from the Toronto area. The Futuro teams that played up would be similarly strong at their age level. But it is not all just about winning - it is about how the game is played, and that is one of the most important aspects of Futuro. U13-U15 is Train to Train, not Train to Compete, so as long as there is enough competition to challenge the players developmentally, whether or not they win the Ontario Cup is less an issue. In general, Futuro players are well developed for their age, even on an international basis. Google "Futuro EPL tour".
DeleteI don't say this to "over-rate" Futuro. I don't see why people should fear Futuro or be jealous of the program. It is a great program, the kids learn a lot. Shouldn't all programs be like that? As a Futuro parent, I'd love more other programs to do the same so the Futuro kids could have more great games with great teams locally. Who wants to have to travel to find other programs that "get it"?
Good programs and good soccer should be celebrated, not cut out of the league because they might somehow taint a particular club's reputation of dominance, and promotional/marketing capability due to that perceived reputation. The politics here are disgusting.
The Futuro U12 team finished below .500, but if you saw any of their games, you would have seen that they absolutely dominated possession in all but two games where they happened to play a man short. The losses generally came from not being able to outrun bigger kids, and giving up goals on "hail Mary" shots that a younger keeper just couldn't reach.
DeleteThe U13 team just demolished the other teams, despite not having a keeper and a very small roster this summer. And while they didn't win the Ontario Cup, they lost to a very strong Woodbridge team that trounced a number of OPDL teams this summer.
The U14's are actually quite strong, but playing up at that age group they would have faced a huge physical difference.
As for your comment about kids leaving Futuro and not going back, not sure where you're getting that from, as I know of some who have left for OPDL and returned. The exception might be the 2002 age group, since Futuro doesn't have a 2002 team. Of five families I know who left Futuro for OSU this summer, two are returning (made their decisions within 2 weeks of the switch), and the others have admitted to me that they may have made a mistake, but can't really return because they burnt their bridges with the way they left.
You can laugh when the parents say that OSU avoids playing Futuro, but the fact is that OSU will not play against Futuro teams unless required to in a league. I would urge OSU parents to ask your children's coaches to try and arrange friendly games with Futuro - if you do ask, think hard about why they are telling you no; if you are afraid to ask them, then I think you know deep down that I'm right on this point.
The U13s did not demolish all teams. Again, a loss to Cap U. and two out of three of their wins against Cumberland were one point games. The Cup match was decisive though.
DeleteThe parents need to get over themselves. The kids are fine though. A good club but the kool aid preachers are obnoxious.
According to the ERSL, the loss was to Hornets, not CapU.
DeleteSometimes how the game is played matters more than the score or even who wins. So it is possible for someone to see the score and think it was close. At a different age level, a Futuro team lost a game 1-0 where they dominated and had >70% possession, but couldn't score (good defending, parked bus, good keeper), but gave up 1 kick and run break away. For kids, this happens, and it is important to evaluate the game on the basis of what was done on the field, with less emphasis on the score. I have had an OSU parent come up and probe me for a score on a game vs some other club... U9-12 has no scores for a reason, and even in the U13-15 range, the score does not tell the whole picture. Obviously the kids want to win, and the scores matter to them, but it really should not matter so much to the parents!
I think there is kool aid in many forms.
Anybody know why Futuro stopped being listed as Futuro at one point during the ERSL season?
ReplyDeleteIn light of proben OPDP scheduled exhibition games, in a classic corrupt FIFA move, the local OPDP manipulated governing soccer watchdog threatened discipline action for incorrect webpage wording of teams. Futuro must be doing something right for getting all this web traffic attention.
DeleteSomeone with a beef against academies (presumably from an OPDP club) filed a complaint with Ontario Soccer regarding how KNSA and Futuro were promoted since both are ORA but not all teams can play in academy leagues (the leagues are effectively in Toronto, and who wants to schlep U9's to Toronto to play weekly games?). They did not want KNSA or Futuro to be able to refer to their teams in the ERSL by the academy name, only by the affiliated club name.
DeleteThis should make it pretty clear to people with blinders on what the OPDP clubs' concerns are. Blowing resources ($$$ parents paid for registration, that is used to pay executives' salaries and consulting fees) not on player development, but for administrators to file complaints about other clubs, because they think that every registration dollar paid in this district should go to their clubs so their GM's and Presidents can charge the clubs more for their time.
DeleteI guess some registration money is being used for JL's reserved parking spot at George Nelms. Money well spent. Or was that parking spot paid for by the City of Ottawa, facilitated by a friend of you know who?
I can think of one guy who has about 300,000 reasons a year to try and squeeze out academies and other clubs. Some of these clubs are officially not-for-profit organizations, but they're wrapped around one guy's business - whatever is left after he takes his cut is not-for-profit.
DeleteReading between the lines, it seems like a political battle between the non-profit clubs and the academies. Unfortunately, many other non=-profit clubs will get caught in the middle (the more rural ones), but someone always gets caught in the middle of a conflict.
ReplyDeleteChange of subject: Are Barcelona Escola really serious about those prices they are charging? For that amount, is Messi a clinician?
The Escola camps were always expensive. The FCB name has some value to players and parents. I believe they are in the dome even in summer, so that may also be a factor? They should clone Messi. The technology is there already.
ReplyDeleteThe clubs may be non-profit, but there are administrators in at least some of the clubs who have a full time job profiting from youth soccer, and have the gall to admonish academies as "for profit corporations", suggesting that the owners are just in it for the money, when in reality in many cases, the academy owners are former professional soccer players who are on the field with kids 7 days a week and are very passionate about long term player development. Should they do that for free? It is possible to have great clubs and great academies, and poor versions of both as well. The organizational structure has little to do with it.
It goes beyond that though because their tactics are not only to exclude academies but to also intentionally exclude smaller rural clubs and also to exclude any other clubs that they have some bias against (eg Hotspurs, St Anthony). They know that if they limit playing opportunities, strong players will have no choice but to come to their club. Small clubs are not caught in the middle of a conflict, they are also being specifically targeted. Basically a small number of "adults" in power positions of large clubs are trying to monopolize youth soccer in Ottawa. Not all club administrators are like this, but the few that are, are very very passionate about it! It is ridiculous. Their job ought to be to administer their own programs, not ruin everyone else's!
If you look at the Polar Bear league, OSU now has Black, Grey, and White (plus Blue in 7v7 T1 EODSA) for both boys age groups. That is 4 "tier 1 teams" at u11/12... it's as if the 9v9 Polar Bear league is an OSU house league. Last winter, OSU had 2 7v7 teams at these age groups, and the second team (white) was weak. How did they get the numbers for 4 T1 teams this winter? Are they calling T2 players T1 (like in the ERSL this past summer)? Perhaps through some stellar development effort many of their T2 players are now T1 quality (in 6 months)? or did they poach lots of players from other programs due to the OPDP league this summer?
Ontario Soccer needs to step in and fix this. The best way would be to have some objective evaluation of each program's quality (club or academy) on a regular basis in terms of LTPD, ie what matters for the kids. Part of the problem is that so far Ontario Soccer has separated Academy and Club leagues (OPDL, SAAC, OASL) to appease clubs. It would be better for players to have 1 league for whatever age and playing level they/their team fits into regardless of organizational structure. Basically, we need to go from a politically driven system to a merit based system. We got away from scores/standings and promotion/relegation at the young ages to avoid adult manipulation of youth, and the adults have still found a way to do so... it is infuriating!
I don't think change along these lines is impossible, but I do think there would be significant resistance to these ideas by the politically motivated "adults" in some clubs.
Correctly said. They believe they have God's given right to youth development. OPDP/gov. org. and goons for years preached "amalgamation" denying anyone else youth program. Well guess what that flawed policy will promote: Challenge to the status-quo. And it's welcomed fresh air.
DeleteThe Polar Bear league, if that is what it is called now, will basically be OSU drinking its own bathwater with that many teams in one tier.
DeletePolar Bear League has existed for many years as an adult soccer league... administered by JL of OSU. The 9v9 U11/12 league is easily found from the OSU website, and it uses the same Polar Bear League logo as the adult league... So it should be pretty obvious what is going on.
DeleteI think they shut down the adult PBL a couple of years ago, or maybe they have rebadged it as an unsanctioned league. There is a 'Futbol 7s' at Ben Franklin. The PB domain goes nowhere now.
DeleteThe Polar Bear league was operating last winter as well, but as noted, it used to be an adult league. Seems that they are now using it to operate a U11/U12 league instead (and probably using the Futbol 7's league for adults).
DeleteFor whatever reason, winter leagues don't seem to have the same restrictions as summer leagues - so long as the players are all registered with the EODSA, it seems anyone can operate a league. I think this is why the Coliseum could operate youth leagues, and same for this Polar Bear league. But OSU's angle here is that the league was open to everyone; the only problem is that it wasn't promoted to the EODSA membership at large, and with limited dome time the league filled up. Just so happens that it filled up with the 7 original OPDP clubs. The other six now seem to be on board with OSU acting on their vendetta against Hotspurs to get rid of them. My guess is Ottawa City will be the next club they target once Hotspurs are out of the way.
What's their beef with the Hotspurs?
DeleteThough, when OSU has 3 of 8 spots in both the U11B and U12B leagues, the league is almost half full before anyone joins so of course it is going to fill up rather quickly! Seems to be pretty much by design.
DeleteThere is a saying: "Freedom of the press is largely reserved for those who own one."
I'm not sure though that it is that healthy for the local soccer community if clubs start forming their own leagues... OSU is not alone in this, as FCB Escola has their own league. I don't believe fragmentation is a good way forward. Again, something that needs to be addressed at the Ontario Soccer level if anything is ever going to change.
Another thought, if something is "open to everyone", in this day and age of transparency expectations, doesn't that mean that it must be promoted to all at once? Otherwise it isn't really open to everyone... Like if the government gave a tax break for something, but only friends of the finance minister knew about it... I bet that would cause a stir... just saying.
DeleteInaction by Ontario Soccer is leading in just such a way, Champions of Champions televised league finals? (ML vs AL - https://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2016/11/football-pyramid-america)
DeleteSoccer Ontario obviously won't do anything about it, and I've heard some pretty disturbing stuff about what's gone on behind closed doors there. Hotspurs would be in a position to do something about this though, since they would have correspondence from CS this summer and could prove the OPDP was actually a league and that the schedules did come from CS (despite his apparent case of amnesia). Hotspurs need to wake and realize that the clubs they thought had their back don't give a crap about them and will sit by while OSU kills them off. To the question about what the beef with Hotspurs is - there is geographic overlap with OSU, so OSU sees it as registration dollars ripe for JL's taking.
DeleteRE Eastern Ontario Soccer Governing body transparency? Definitely; nepotism at the OPDP controlled board is the "soup du jour". But we all know that, and it is now clear and in the open for Ottawa public opinion to see via any internet searches to lead them here and read all about it...
DeleteHotspurs would definitely have information and the motive to bring this down. If I'm not mistaken, the CSA is now looking into this past summer's OPDP mess because it's pretty clear to everyone that Soccer Ontario is biased. Hotspurs need to take the information they have to the CSA, and if that falls on deaf ears, to the media.
DeleteAnd to sponsors. Sponsors will usually shy away from messes like this until it's fixed and becomes legit again.
DeleteAnd if anyone is following the latest Competition Bureau investigation info Bread price fixing, you know this is a big bite for corporations and businesses (not for profits are NOT excempt). Anything where funds are exchanged and the consumer is affected. Write your letters to the Bureau about this OPDP PBL monopoly-oligopoly.
DeleteRJROA, you're completely at the extreme. Most posters here are talking in a professional manner with well thought out ideas and complaints. You sound like one of those obnoxious conspiracy theorists. Do yourself a favour and relax a bit. You sound like a bitter ex. lol.
DeleteOh you mean the same "relaxed and professional manner" teams were excluded from soccer this past summer by the OPDP manipulated Gov. Org.? Or the shenanigans going on now (both youth and adult soccer)? Now we are supposed to uphold a trusted (but broken) set of expectations and rules? Me at the extreme? Maybe? All is fair in love and war. However, about these OPDP elitist goons, all it takes is threat of action to get these clubs thinking twice about what they do. Competition Bureau complaints are free and online: http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00019.html
DeleteDon't forget the Outaouais leagues across the river. Also, the Outaouais clubs are seeking permission to play in the Coliseum league this winter, which I assume is a reason for the schedules not being out yet.
ReplyDeleteSome of the Outaouais clubs and their U13 regional teams have been entered in the Coliseum league. It seems that there is something bigger going on behind the scenes that bodes well for the Ottawa region (although some of the people running the bigger clubs might not like it).
DeleteAnyone know what led to the Outaouais teams being allowed to play in the Coliseum league? I seem to recall that at some town hall Soccer Ontario said they were looking at doing something about the Ottawa region, given its proximity to Quebec. Would this have something to do with that?
DeleteThe seven have a good relationship with the Quebec clubs so they are happy to have them join.
ReplyDeleteThe sevens don't like Futuro for a whole bunch of reasons.
Looks like PSA hooked up with the Hotspurs?
Reason #1: https://youtu.be/VLxQ_h0bxXw
DeleteYou do realize that the OSU team in this video is not their top team... From looking at the video it looks like an OSU Blue team or lower. Whoever posted this video is dishonest and pathetic! Get a life! Be honest, don't be moronic! The top OSU team at that age group would be playing OPDL! Do you think people are stupid? You are the stupid in this conversation, let me tell you.
DeleteIt's obviously not their first team, but your comment is a perfect example of the problems locally - the unwillingness to play a friendly game against a good local team, for no better reason than it allows them to say "our first team is much stronger, but...". This point has been raised throughout these threads and I was hoping it might shame someone at OSU into picking up the phone to arrange some games. But I suppose some people have no shame.
DeleteThat is an older video. In my experience, Futuro vs OSU Black games are generally closer than that but it may vary by age group. There can be so many factors in the outcome of kids games though - the score can be misleading. Games should be evaluated on the basis of what we are trying to develop.
DeleteOne thing that is common to all Futuro teams (which can be seen to a degree in that video) is the high level of creativity displayed. That is something that is very important to develop at an early age when risk taking and mistakes are ok. Children learn from mistakes with proper guidance in the right environment. If we over-emphasize tactical as a means to win from an early age (and pressure them to win!), players are limited in their boundaries when they are older and the games mean more. The habits we learn in our youth stick with us! That is partly why the Brazilians are notably creative on the ball - all the low pressure free-form mixed age soccer they play in their early years.
Older Futuro teams play at the OPDL level even though they do not play in the league. Ontario needs a single simplified league system that accommodates all programs (all levels and age groups of all accredited programs organized appropriately). It is a shame for both the Futuro players and OSU Black players that they do not get to play each other more often! Why should both teams have to travel to find suitable competition? The people in charge need to put the kids first! I think the parents of both groups would agree on this...
Obnoxiousity aside by all (right and wrong) sides as a famous president would say; you mean to tell me OPDP and friends were/are still unwilling to setup scheduled exhibition games and face off their best fair and square on the field? Point taken and clear for soccer consumers where to get the best bang for their buck! I still don't understand why Futuro raises such controversy with the 7s, but the visuals speaks volumes. I would be willing to pay and love to see the real best against the real best. Anyone willing to take up on that challenge?
DeleteThis has been discussed a billion times. For the last time, OSU Black teams don't run away from competition. It's a myth that the people on this blog love to create to feel better about themselves. OSU Black teams play OPDL against TFC, Woodbridge, Vaughan, North Toronto, Oakville, etc etc etc. There's no hiding in OPDL! OSU teams have to play top competition every week.
DeleteI don't know why there aren't more friendlies between OSU and Futuro teams... there's plenty of friendlies between OSU and Cumberland who is normally better competition than Futuro. OSU doesn't hide from Cumberland, why would it hide from Futuro?
Please stop this absurd discussion. Is it OSU's fault that Futuro is not in OPDL? OSU has to drop everything to go have friendlies with Futuro? Why would they?
Futuro is following their path, from u9-u12 EODSA and u13 and up is SAAC. Of course we would all love to unify SAAC and OPDL, but that's a pipe dream, it's the unfortunate nature of this province. Is it OSU's fault that there isn't an unified league in Ontario? Talk to Jason de Vos or Ron Smale. OSU plays where/against whatever the OSA told them to play.
"OSU doesn't hide from Cumberland, why would it hide from Futuro [and presumably other small-rural clubs at the same level]?" So CS's emails with the scheduled OPDP exhibition games did not reach the small and rural clubs' parents because...? And you would just chalk it up to File 13? Can we have a copy of those emails so we truly believe what is being said by you: "OSU ...doesn't run away from competition"? You can send them to: fairnessinottawasoccer@gmail.com
DeleteBTW OPDL-SAAC Sheep amalgamation blog is located at OSA's black container beside their desks.
You think you're so smart, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Sad
DeleteYeah momma hates me and dresses me funny! I am so sad.. : (
DeleteOn point man! The OPDP 7s excluded teams and clubs, and ran away from competition in the scheduled exhibition games. 2017-2018 same? 2018 same? TBD, read all about it!
... for the last time?
Fact is that OSU will not play against Futuro. Forget about OPDL teams - parents obviously won't be moving their kids to a club in Toronto. In any case, OPDL and Soccer Ontario are the masters of managing competition and image - didn't Soccer Ontario lean on the Umbro showcase organizers a couple of years ago to ensure that OPDL teams would not face non-OPDL teams to make sure they don't look bad (rhetorical question)?
DeleteAre you seriously still asking why OSU avoids Futuro? Why don't you ask JL why he told the EODSA that they won't play against Futuro? I think his exact words were "we won't play against Futuro teams".
Cause people don't like them....for a variety of reasons....
DeleteIs Hotspurs being left out of the OSU winter league because of their affiliation with PSA? They had the same deal this past summer and were allowed to play in the OPDP, so not sure why things would have changed, other than some of the clubs now giving in to OSU's demands (maybe in exchange for playing in this winter league?).
Deletere OSU not hiding from competition: I agree, once they are in the OPDL, they play who they play because they have no choice. At u9-U12, they are not in OPDL, and the issue that this blog centers around - the exclusion of teams playing in the league - is a U9-U12 thing. The need for OPDL strength trickles down in terms of U9-12 recruitment and is perhaps one of the reasons for the political tactics we are seeing from OSU. Which teams are strongest varies a little by age group, but for the most part, OSU Black and Futuro are typically the strongest at all age groups, and in many cases Cumberland also can be strong. Other clubs can have very strong teams or weaker teams, it can be a bit hit or miss a bit depending on who is involved... you also have to be careful in how you define a team as strong or not, because at the young age groups, teams can win a lot of games playing kick and run and not really learn a lot. The better teams are stronger technically and more sophisticated tactically. Quality should have a lot less to do with physical play at young ages and though teams that prioritize that can be strong competition and a good challenge for the kids, the best games are played vs highly technical, creative teams.
DeleteTo say you will not play games against what in most cases is the toughest competition in that age range is unfortunate for the kids. Especially so when it is for politically motivated reasons. Adults should be above this.
Why would parents want to drive to Toronto to play quality competition when you could do so locally? Strong local teams should play each other at all levels. I know it is not OSU's fault that Futuro is not in OPDL, and I also know that it is probably unlikely that Ontario Soccer will unify SAAC OASL and OPDL any time soon, but it still doesn't hurt to put that idea out there and encourage unity rather than divisiveness.
2 out of 3 Futuro teams finished under .500 in the ERSL.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen any of those teams play? The Futuro 2003's, 2004's and 2005's are all much stronger than any other local teams at their own age groups.
DeleteLiar. There is at least one 2003 team from one of the sevens who played in the same league as the FUTURO 2003s this year and were better. See, this is what annoys people about Futuro. It's not the kids, it's the kool aid drinking parents stating things that are completely false. How do you know the 2004s are better? Did they play the OPDL teams in Ottawa this year?
DeleteI know a lot of the 2004 players on a number of teams. The team is very different now than this past summer. You can ask some of the players who have played for both Futuro and OSU.
DeleteNot sure which '03 team you're talking about. I know of some '03 players who played on '02 teams, but don't know of any other '03 teams who played up as a whole.
I actually had the chance to see the Futuro 2005 team play earlier this week. I have to say it was a pleasure to watch. Some very good technical players on that team.
DeleteThe teams that finished under .500 were playing under age because they would humiliate the teams at their own age level. That is not good for anyone. Ideally if you want kids to learn the most, they should be near .500, so the whole philosophy suggested by the comment is wrong from a developmental standpoint.
DeleteIf you do not know which 2003 team played up and were BETTER than the Futuro 2003 team, then you don't have a clue about what you are talking about, and you are living in your Futuro bubble, Kool Aid drinker. Ask around, and you will find out who the 2003 team was who played up in the ERSL and did quite well.
DeleteI did ask, and you wouldn't answer.
DeleteAll of this is a great argument to take your kids to another sport.
ReplyDeleteThis thread seems to be getting out of control. Who cares whether a specific team is better than another? Ultimately, people need to decide what the best environment is for the own child's development. I would recommend that people do their homework, go watch some training sessions and games and if possible, attend some practices. Only then can you really make an informed decision. The last thing you want is to be moving your kids around every couple of years because the parents jump into rash decisions based on second hand information, or because they think they have to take a specific route.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the real issues here: 1) certain clubs skirting the rules to exclude programs they see as a threat to their bottom line; and 2) the increasing fragmentation of our local soccer.
And with this very straightforward yet simple message from Anonymous: "All of this is a great argument to take your kids to another sport." [might as well be another unsanctioned league] is what public opinion & sports consumers take away from all this; simple because those at the helm (locally, regionally, provincially, nationally, etc.) are complacent or rigid inaction to do anything decent or honest or for the benefit of the entire soccer community. This is an apple ad fits perfectly here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vckz6EAn30Y
ReplyDeleteOPDP 7s Summer and Winter leagues choose to do exhibition games and leave out other rural and small clubs elite teams - Is perfectly permitted. This is a fact
OPDP 7s Summer and Winter leagues choose to run away from other rural and small clubs elite teams - Is perfectly permitted. This is a fact
OPDP 7s Summer and Winter leagues choose and hide the scheduling of consecutive exhibition games. And lied about it - THIS is NOT permitted. This is a fact and is dishonest.
OPDP 7s Summer and Winter leagues continue to avoid or delay or give the run-around to inviting other rural and small clubs elite teams - Is perfectly permitted. This is a fact
OPDP 7s Summer and Winter leagues say they don't run away from the competition, but when challenged will give you the party line "exhibition games" are permitted... intentionally leaving out chose to "run away from the competition". Can't have it both ways. - Freedom of expression is protected under Canadian law, for all sides.
OPDP 7s Summer and Winter leagues will blame anybody and everybody below or above them (while conspiring against the same) for their woes or why they can't play the competition. Own up to it - This is a fact
That and all the convoluted, confusing, biased, whitewashing, complacency, nepotistic, misdirection, vanity playing, or simple void in honest communication leaves a bitter unwelcome taste for any (hard working, bright, innovative and willing participant) newcomers to local soccer. At a time when you think all governing organizations would want to get-it-T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R is when more division from collusion and bullies is the norm.
Put your ear to the ground. Listen to the consumers and masses. Yes (opinion which doesn't carry discipline charges or is above the law) I am glad for any new participants from the private sector, from community organizations, from unsanctioned leagues, from across the river, anyone who pays their dues and is willing to work at it. Under the official pathway or outside of it. Yes I am new(er) to soccer and don't have a lot of your elite knowledge of some here; yet you would think that as a general rule any community would want a welcoming atmosphere. Anonymous might be onto something here about taking to kids somewhere else...
More and more clubs seem to be forming partnerships/alliances. Do you guy see this as a good idea?
ReplyDeleteIn theory, I can see that partnerships/alliances can help provide kids with opportunities they might not have at their current club, but I'm always skeptical about these arrangements and question what is actually going on behind the scenes. I think there are often financial arrangements between the clubs and that they are actually considering their own interests in forming these "alliances".
DeleteWe live in a free society, where a family can go play for any club they choose (subject to being good enough, for the most part). When a club starts pushing or suggesting to a player that if they want to play OPDL, they should go to a specific club, there's no way they're taking into account all factors (coaching at other clubs, geography, style of play, etc.). On the other side of it, where a club is guaranteeing that they will leave a certain number of spots on a team for players coming from a specific club, that isn't in the interest of player development either, because there could easily be a more suitable player from elsewhere (maybe from within your own club?) that could fill that spot.
I think these arrangements are driven by: 1) some clubs looking to expand their influence; and 2) some clubs looking for "protection" from other clubs that might be targeting their territory/players.
I might be cynical, but how could one not be with all that's going on in Ottawa soccer?
It's ALL a business and $$$, and that's OK. People should realize now that training in clubs OR academies is about making money.
ReplyDeleteNew entry into academy scene?
http://fta-functional-training-academy.business.site or http://functionaltrainingacademy.ca/
"My customer is not always right, but they are still my customer"
What's the deal with the EODSA's winter development league? I heard a rumour that some of the clubs threatened not to enter if their first teams at the U9 and U10 age groups had to play against Futuro, so they ended up creating "T1A" and "T1B" divisions? Since these clubs formed their own U11/U12 league, they didn't make that demand at those ages.
ReplyDeleteThreaten? Hardly necessary. Those clubs basically are the EODSA now. They just decided to do it that way because they wanted it that way.
DeleteThe fact that they are willing to let their second and third teams get embarrassed, so long as their first teams don't have to risk looking bad says it all about the people running the two big clubs. I saw one of these games last weekend - felt bad for those kids. Pathetic to use 10 year olds as pawns in their plan for personal financial gain.
DeleteIf you look at the schedule, you'll see that Futuro will also be playing T1A teams. Only one Futuro team won their ERSL division this year. The 2 other teams finished under .500
ReplyDeletehttps://sportsottawa.com/2017/10/28/st-anthony-anthology-futuro-player-wows-fulham-fc/
ReplyDeleteOver the top performance from Ottawa Internationals at the ERSL AGM, announcing that the EODSA has decided to eliminate the three independent leagues. No need to consult members, they will just tell the ones they disagree with they have no voting rights.
ReplyDeleteCould you please elaborate on that? Who are the three leagues?
ReplyDeleteERSL, OCSL, Futsal. The Internationals guy simply stated it (he is an EODSA board member).
DeleteI look at the Futuro trips to England, it all sounds awesome, it's good for canadian soccer to showcase in Europe, but I have few questions:
Delete- what age group do they play against? I know Futuro brought 04's and 05s to their latest 2017 trip. What is the age group they are playing against? Sorry, I simply do not believe that Futuro teams can beat academy teams in England that easily. Something is fishy, I simply don't buy it. Also from the videos I've seen of those games, there seems to be an obvious age gap, I don't believe that a Futuro team could go to London and tie the real Arsenal academy team in the same age group. That's impossible.
- How can a u12 team get a travel permit to go to England and play games? It's clearly stated that Ontario teams cannot participate in tournaments/festivals outside of North America... how can this happen then? I'm OK with traveling outside of North America, but shouldn't the rules be the same for everybody?
The "rules" are NOT the same for everyone as proven. I concur RE ERSL AGM comments above. OPDP reincarnation into the EODSA is alive and well and looking to carry out it's master plan: take over all soccer regionally/locally and kick everyone not to their liking. As said by someone before, this thread is not about any academy but about exclusion and segregation from organized soccer.
DeleteOutside North America travel permits require a CSA permit, but Ontario teams can get them.
DeleteI think it is good that there will be one centralized league. It will be more organized, easier to operate etc...
ReplyDeleteUnder fair and inclusive "association" I would be in favor. However looking forward from the 2016 voting structure (assuming no drastic changes/flips on subsequent yrs.) is not in favor if innovation or entrepreneurship (which makes the case for competition bureau):
DeleteCapital United S.C. 34
Cumberland United S.C. 169
Ottawa City S.C. 152
Ottawa Gloucester S.C. 213
Ottawa Internationals S.C. 154
Ottawa South United S.C. 278
West Ottawa Soccer 379
OPDP SUB-TOTAL 1379 50.1%
ALL OTHER CLUBS 1372 49.9%
Under one umbrella, they literally hold 50 + 0.10%
But it makes the case for why not make a better sanctioned league? A cheaper more efficient league is what will define where the Canadian consumer will choose to go. And that scares them too even more than Academies.