24.5.18

Forward, modern and inclusive thinking?

Not a scientific or statistical tool by any means; but definitely a common sense indicator. Using CSA as an example, our District governing organization should have ~9400+ followers (not 107!). You really want to trust at the helm people stuck in the past? Losing (source: 2017 AGM REPORT) 3000+ players in one year alone? And absolutely no comment on reversing this trend from the "leadership" in the January 24, 2018 AGM meeting minutes? Which of course they haven't made public!  What are they trying to cover up? These are the same people doing the same thing over and over simply because "it was done that way day after day, year after year?"

Coming soon: World cup 2018, new provincial politicians eager to make their mark, and news organizations willing to report on anything "soccer related".  fairnessinottawasoccer.org is popular so make sure to comment.

Let's discuss it! Leave a comment! Do you have any scoop you want us to publish? By all means do send us an email to fairnessinottawasoccer@gmail.com

                       Registered             Facebook
                         Players                 Followers
CSA                 850,000                  161,240
EODSA              50,000                     107





And as additional info fairnessinottawasoccer.org stats in one year alone!



110 comments:

  1. Anonymous24/5/18

    You should put OS & FSQ up there as well.

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  2. Might as well use myspace. ...the technical leadership, laughable.

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  3. Anonymous25/5/18

    Loosing 3000 players... what kind of players? Rec, Comp? adults? kids? In what age groups?

    Competitive soccer is expensive so it's not surprising. I think the most drop comes from the nonsense of no scores and no standings. It's a aberration, that could only come from the head of a non-soccer country.Which parent is going to pay thousands of dollars per year for something that doesn't really matter and nobody cares who wins or loses?
    Only parents who really love soccer. Other parents who sit on the fence between soccer, basketball, baseball or hockey are not going to pick a no scores no standings sport.
    For those "super-smart" people in Ontario that say the kids don't care about scores/standings/trophies, I say BS! They do care.

    I understand the whole debate about playing to win and playing to develop, but most coaches understand that anyways.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anonymous25/5/18

      200 in YC U13-U18, 1100 in YR U13-U18, 1600 U12 and under. Adult competitive gained, adult rec lost about 200. No breakdown of the U12 by age or level - the EODSA did not seem to care about it, no discussion at the AGM. So we have no idea which clubs lost 1600 kids, rec/competitive, etc.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous26/5/18

      I also have mixed opinions of the no scores/standings thing, (and I coach). Kids do like to win and keep score and see how their team relates to other teams in standings. I honestly think that we could have scores and standings at U9-12 but downplay their importance and not have promotion or relegation of teams (have instead development based quality standards for programs).

      It is a real problem when adults are too engaged in the results of games. Even kids too engaged with results can have negative effects. Eg, hockey player stats at U9 is ridiculous if players (or parents!!) care too much about their stats and start to play to achieve stats ahead of other developmental goals.

      In spite of no scores no standings, I still find coaches who are coaching to win. A coach can highly influence the score of any game based on whether or not they put players outside their comfort zone to learn, or optimize the situation to win. A good coach knows how to walk that balance to keep the game reasonably close and maximize learning.

      Regardless, Jason deVos seems to be firmly of the mindset that no scores/standing U9-12 is the right way to go. As he said, he is not interested in crowning the champion super elite U8 boys team only to have half the kids drop the sport by U12. He is the lead here, so we do need to fit in with where he is taking us. If instead of emphasizing physical speed and strength in soccer at the young ages (through selection of physically advanced kids) and instead focus on technical development - teach the beauty of the cat and mouse aspect of ball control vs an opponent at the young ages... that is the way to hook players for the long term. I believe this is what Jason supports.

      If you look at other sports, Norway is dominant in nordic ski events, which they largely credit to their developmental policy of emphasizing enjoyment of the sport in the pre-teen years rather than results-based competition. I think the kids will compete sufficiently with each other anyway if you make the environment correct, rather than having early physical development of some kids push other kids out of the sport before anyone fully matures and finds their way.

      The key then is in educating parents so that they want to select a development focused approach rather than a winning-first based approach.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous27/5/18

    There has to be a better way to move forward. If not, Rubgy is looking a pretty good alternative.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I started my kids in rugby this summer. The culture difference is phenomenal. The club we went with made me sure we knew the other good clubs that were equally or more convenient, had nothing but good things to say about their 'competitors'.

      Delete
  5. Anonymous28/5/18

    That is the thing - there are other sports where everyone can compete and have fun and not have to deal with so much acrimony. There really needs to be a culture change. However, part of the problem is that soccer is a very popular sport and so there is a lot of money in it for clubs and/or individuals. Rugby may not have the same problem in that regard?

    I don't think players are quitting so much due to the lack of scores and standings at U9-12, but other political factors do come into play. There can be way too much player movement between teams and clubs. Kids like to be part of a team. Also at U12, "serious" players do need to start to decide somewhat between sports simply due to the increased time demands.

    A culture that teaches the beauty of the game first is more likely to keep players involved. If we just pick for physical size, speed, and strength to win at U8, those players are probably also being selected for the same reasons in hockey and other sports. Often the big physical kids get attracted to full-contact sport, and as unfair as it may sound, the perception of soccer in North America is clouded by some of the divers and cheaters in the pros. If the kids aren't hooked on the skill and beauty of the game from early on, and only play a physical game, it is reasonable that their interests will shift towards more physical sports as they hit their teens.

    In short, create a positive fun creative environment, and youth will be attracted to it. Make things negative and political and youth and parents will find something that is not.

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    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous31/5/18

    In 2003 the EODSA turned its back on the OCSL

    https://web.archive.org/web/20030219230954/http://www.ocslonline.ca:80/docs/ocsl_impact_of_proposed_changes.htm

    Rumblings back then were:

    · Why has the EODSA turned its back on the OCSL, which has successfully run Youth competitive soccer for 25 years, and decided to hand everything over to a fledgling organization that has run a league of 45 teams for one season. Does experience not mean anything?
    · Why are a number of people sitting on multiple boards?
    · Is there not a conflict of interest when a Director of a board will be voting on issues that he has a financial interest in? And who also votes at the EODSA meeting with a substantial number of votes?

    In 2017-2018 the EODSA turned its back on the ERSL; and we still have major conflict of interest and an incestuous system of clientelism in your governing organization!

    Yet history (WaybackMachine) will show a steady decline in EODSA own membership over the years. Who really is the bad guy here?

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  8. Anonymous31/5/18

    At least in 2003 clubs actually got a vote.

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  9. Anonymous4/6/18

    Pretty poor showing by the Ottawa League One teams, one win in eight games for the two of them together. Drinking too much of their own bathwater?

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    1. Anonymous4/6/18

      We live in a fishbowl here in Ottawa. As much as clubs like to promote the successes of their players (however long or short they have actually been with that club), the Ottawa region really has had a very poor record of developing players. The biggest proof of this would how few players on the Canadian national teams are from Ottawa - much smaller cities have consistently produced more national team players than Ottawa. As for cities of similar size, it's embarrassing to even compare us to them. I think this is a symptom of a much bigger issue in Ottawa - it pre-dates the OPDP initiative, but many of the problems in developing players stem from that issue, which has been brewing for many years.

      Delete
    2. Yep agree, there is so much wrong. It's a symptomatic deceased colony. But it is most important not to forget (and also not be complicity quiet) that everyone should always be allowed the opportunity to compete in a clear and transparent system free of unscrupulous practices. Be vigilant!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous4/6/18

      A picture is worth a thousand words.

      https://www.eodsa.ca/Downloads/2/EODSA%20Sample%20Card.png

      Couldn't find someone worthwhile locally?

      Delete
    4. Anonymous4/6/18

      Chapman comes to mind at least provincially.

      Delete
  10. Anonymous4/6/18

    Heard the WOS U12 girls coach made a real fool of himself at their game tonight. Such a loser and an embarrassment to anyone involved with him.

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    1. Anonymous5/6/18

      Unfortunate that kids had to witness that type of behaviour. Hopefully the club takes some action, otherwise it says a lot about them.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5/6/18

      The big clubs have been acting with no integrity or basic decency since before the OPDP stuff began. Hard for them to turn around and demand that from their staff and volunteers.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12/6/18

      This guy started screaming at an opposing player (an 11 year old girl) after one of his players ran into her and fell. There was no foul or anything like that, just a collision between a bigger kid and a smaller kid. Then this clown goes over and wanted to fight with the opposing coach. Even his own players were in shock. The WOS parents didn't really help matters and it says a lot about those individuals' characters. People really need to start recording more games and making these videos public, because this coach (and those parents) behaviour was disgusting. As I understand it, WOS has done f**k all and it will have to be the district that deals with it.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous13/6/18

      EODSA dealing with WOSC? Won't happen. Basically saying WOSC will need to deal with WOSC.

      Delete
  11. Anonymous5/6/18

    Canada U21s did quite well at the Toulon Tournament. Jonathan David and Kris Twardek both developed here in Ottawa. There are a lot of WOS U12 teams. Which one? What happened?

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    1. Anonymous5/6/18

      Not saying there are no national team players, but far fewer come from Ottawa than from Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, etc. Smaller cities seem to have proportionately much greater representation than Ottawa does.

      Delete
  12. Anonymous5/6/18

    Nobody is disputing that. But, it's getting better. Has Futuro contributed to the Senior National team yet?

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    1. Anonymous5/6/18

      The oldest kids in their program are U17's, so obviously not, but they have had kids in the national programs of other countries. Also remember that you're talking about a much smaller pool of players as compared to other clubs, and Ontario is desperate to keep OPDL afloat so stacks the cards against non-OPDL players (for anyone that saw the games between Ontario and Quebec, it was clear that the Quebec teams were generally much stronger, despite a smaller population).

      The player with the most potential out of Ottawa hands down did come through Futuro and is in Europe now. The kid is at a different level from anyone I have ever seen.

      Probably would take a lot of time, but it would be interesting to see how many national team players are produced per capita from Ottawa, compared to Halifax, Saskatoon, Kitchener, Windsor,...we definitely lag behind all of them, for some reason.

      Delete
  13. Anonymous5/6/18

    This Futuro kid in Europe is better than Jonathan David?

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    1. Anonymous5/6/18

      Younger, so anything can happen. But I've never seen a kid as good at this age (including a younger JD).

      Either way, it's great for Ottawa that Jonathan David is doing so well. I do agree that Ottawa has been under-represented at the national level and professionally - whether it's due to inferior player development, or simply players being overlooked, he's a great ambassador for this city and hopefully his success can open doors for other kids from Ottawa.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5/6/18

      I know who this kid is and he is unreal. Never seen Jonathan David play when he was younger though, so don't know how they would have compared. This kid has drawn interest from big European clubs, so there is obviously something there - otherwise they wouldn't go through the trouble of signing him. Of course, anything can happen in the next couple of years, but hopefully he stays on course.

      As for the Ottawa scene, I don't think there have been a handful of senior national team players over the years. Compare that to much smaller cities like Hamilton, London, Kitchener, all of which I'm sure have at least as many as Ottawa despite being much smaller. And the bigger cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver definitely have proportionately more than we do. The only city I can think of that seems to produce fewer players than Ottawa is Quebec City. Edmonton, Winnipeg and Calgary all seem to be better represented than Ottawa. Could just be perception though.

      Delete
  14. Anonymous6/6/18

    Let's keep in mind that Jonathan did not start playing soccer until the age of 10....

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    1. Anonymous6/6/18

      That is the hidden cost of how the expensive competitive development programs are funded from grassroots programs, puts them out of reach for far too many. $175 for 9 sessions for a kid under 5 is counterproductive.

      Delete
  15. Anonymous7/6/18

    Just curious what people's experiences have been with the "festivals only" format some of the clubs have been running? One parent I spoke to says they weren't told about it until it was too late to find another team and had they known they wouldn't have joined this club. Could just be a one-off situation though.

    Have these teams been playing other games, or has it been limited to the couple of local festivals that have happened so far?

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    1. Anonymous7/6/18

      I know there were quite a few families not happy with the format last summer. I guess we will see what registration numbers look like this year.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8/6/18

      I'm happy with it. Since there is no ranking/scores in any league, all games are friendlies. In the end we are playing competitive games and training with same ratio as if we were in a league. So it's fine.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous8/6/18

      Can't say I've been thrilled with the new format. Festivals here and there means a more sporadic game schedule and when we do have them, the games are packed into a day. Training is no different than before, and we're pretty much playing the same teams and same kids we used to play in the ERSL development league.

      The festival format really is counter-intuitive to proper player development. Games should be weekly (ideally one game each week) so they can work on things in training in between. Not jam 2 games in a day (or 3 or 4 short games in a day). Having them play two games in a day means they haven't had a chance to work out things that didn't go well in the first game. Spread those two games over two weeks and they have a week's worth of training in between to work on it and try to execute better in the next game.

      I also thought one of the ideas behind this OPDP initiative was that club TD's would be able to watch all of the games, but I really haven't seen ours out at our festivals. I think the format makes that more difficult because of games in various locations.

      We'll finish this season, but will look for something else in the fall.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous9/6/18

      I like the festival format. The players are getting more games in. Don't wanna waste your Sunday? Play elsewhere then. I haven't seen Futuro or LACA at any of these so far.

      Delete
    5. Talking today to an OISC coach & friend, other coaches/families don't like losing their Sundays. Yep, they are looking to play somewhere else.

      Do some people not undesrtand how youth team "I am worthy permits" are given out by their OPDP board... sorry meant EODSA board? If you can't find a specific team/club look for the club they are registered under.

      Delete
  16. The thing about all this Soccer drama is that as a volunteer / member of an incorporated club we are pretty insulated and protected from demages of any kind. We could just walk away and we don't lose or gain anything. Heck, our club is so cheap we literally break even... barely. So we are  not in this for financial gain at all. However, the kids or young generation playing in all our teams have all to lose; morale, role models, role model organizations, a place and sport fo run away from every day realities and recharge batteries, etc. But, every club has a weakest links, and you have to give extra to cover the shortage. Every club also has the governing organization to deal with and all the B.S. bureocracy, also needing to put in the effort. Every club has rivals, and that requires effort. But the straw that breaks the camel's back is having to put in effort to deal with back stabbing from the unlikeliest of places for no logical reason or chance for absolution.

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    1. Anonymous8/6/18

      Small claims court. If every club used it often, it would add up quickly. There is holes in everything they do guaranteed no chance they could win.

      Delete
    2. Umm... you right about the holes. In this case an employee shared private AIMs information with a third party. That is illegal and reprimand, if not dismissal material.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous8/6/18

      When did this happen?

      Delete
    4. I am guessing sometimes in may but I am not privy to the channels (email, paper copy, other) method with the third party obtained the AIMs information. If the third party requires access let them have their own and go through the motions like everyone else.

      Delete
  17. Anonymous8/6/18

    Some say Futuro are not playing up a year to look good at the top of the standings which markets their club better I guess. Not saying this is factual, but it is a rumour floating around. Their 05s should be playing up though. Especially with 3 clubs being in the OPDL and not being there to provide decent competition. Seems like a waste of time. Their 04s are not as strong though.

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    1. Anonymous8/6/18

      They are technically better than the older teams, but the problem is that there can be a really big physical size difference at this age. The 05's played up last year and did fine - again, technically better than the older teams, but there was a big size difference. The size difference this year would be even greater, so it really isn't the best option.

      Ideally they would only play friendly games against out of town teams, but it's a lot of trouble organize a full-season of friendly games. So by playing in the ERSL they at least get a set number of games that are scheduled, and can pick up the odd competitive game against out of town teams when possible.

      If the other clubs feel Futuro is making themselves look good by playing locally at their own age, I guarantee you they would be more than happy to play the OPDL teams any time they want. But we all know that probably won't happen.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11/6/18

      More of a player development comment and not directed at any single club or program, but having an entire team play up isn't in the players' interests and seems to often be done because a club thinks it makes them look good. While there might be a number of kids who would benefit from playing up, the odds that every kid on a team should be playing up are quite slim (even in a weak ERSL). Playing up should be decided on an individual basis, and can include training up, being called up for games here and there, or playing up full-time.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12/6/18

      ERSL isn't publishing standings for 05 and lower so this is a myth.

      I agree with the player development comment above that not all players on a given team should be playing up even if they are excellent technically and tactically. As a coach, I have done player evaluations for play up, and physical and psychological components are important also. A smaller technically advanced player who gets pushed off the ball repeatedly by larger kids (playing up) will start to give up technical skill and this is not good for their development.

      That said, Futuro teams are registered in the highest level of the league for their age groups that they are allowed to play. For U9-U12, it is all the other teams from other clubs that are registered at the wrong levels (or not registered at all).

      Those complaining that Futuro 04/05 are too strong to play at their own age are supporting the fact that those teams should be playing OPDL teams regularly instead. Clearly there needs to be an appropriate, inclusive elite-level league so that these players can participate at the correct playing level.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous12/6/18

      Looks like some games have results listed for 05 but mainly only in lower tiers. Maybe teams are not submitting game reports? Doesn't matter though. The point is one should probably not place too much emphasis on these results.

      Delete
  18. Anonymous10/6/18

    "Football is a gentleman's game played by ruffians, and rugby is a ruffian's game played by gentlemen. This old British saying cleverly contrasts football (or soccer) with rugby. "Ruffian" is an old-fashioned word meaning a tough, violent, possibly criminal person."

    https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/sports-rugby.htm

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous10/6/18

    Will Futuro be joining the Polab Bear League this year?

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    1. Anonymous12/6/18

      Why have 2 leagues? It would be great if the strongest teams could play each other one way or another.

      Delete
  20. Anonymous11/6/18

    The 05s are definitely not blowing anyone away and neither are the 04s. Yeah, not losing but many matches are competitive. I see a lot of ex Futuro players now playing for other clubs. Retention is key. Not sure what is going on.

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    1. Anonymous11/6/18

      My kid's team played the '05's and they definitely blew us away, although you wouldn't know it from the score. Their ball movement and build-up is way beyond any team I've seen at this age. As a comparison, we lost by a pretty bad score to a team from out of town, but that was just long balls to a couple of really big kids - that team wasn't anywhere near as good as the Futuro team, but you would never know it from their scores against us. It was the most one-sided game we've ever been in as far as possession goes. If you think about it, you can really run up the score by constantly hitting long balls up the field, but when you're consistently stringing together 15 - 20 passes in a row, it limits the amount of time you have to score.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11/6/18

      It might be the 03's that you've seen with other teams - that team disbanded. I think the families weren't able to get on the same page as far as what they wanted. Unfortunate, because they had a very good group at one point.

      The 04's have had some turnover for various reasons. Some kids have been coming back, so that team has been rebuilding.

      I don't think the 05 team has lost a single player over the years though. It would be interesting to see that group stay together, because they really are a nice team to watch. I think the core of that team has been together since the beginning and you can tell. Very good technical players.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous12/6/18

      At some point, smashing the other team is not good for anyone, and this is largely driven by a coach's objectives. Do we run up the score to embarrass the other team, or do we try to accomplish something developmentally in spite of the situation?

      Futuro players are always given specific tasks to accomplish during the game, and if the game is lopsided, the sophistication of those objectives is increased to maintain a challenge level for the players. I often see 2 games happening - one team desperately trying to counterattack to score and one team passing the ball with composure, executing sophisticated objectives while maintaining possession. It is actually possible to let in a few goals and even lose a game doing so (mistakes happen, part of learning), but usually it just means the score stays manageable and Futuro players get lots of touches to develop tactically.

      Don't get me wrong, the Futuro U9-12 should be playing the best teams from other clubs at their age level (and U13+ also vs OPDL level teams). Why won't the other clubs enter their strongest teams in the league?? As others noted above, having a weekly game between training sessions is preferable developmentally than playing a clump of games every other weekend.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous12/6/18

      The initial comment above is a pretty good summary of what is wrong with soccer in Canada. Team A beats Teams B and C 2-0 in each case, has 80%+ of the ball and regularly strings together a dozen or more passes. Team B beats Team C 9-1 by identifying a physically weaker (12 year old) player and exploiting it by matching up a physically more developed player and launching balls in that direction. People here will look at the scores and without knowing anything about how the game went and assume that Team B must have played really well and maybe had an off game against Team A.

      Delete
  21. Anonymous11/6/18

    Sanjeev definitely needs to find a way to keep the 05s together.

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  22. Anonymous13/6/18

    Their 04s lost last night. They lost some key players supposedly. Possibly to the OPDL pathway.

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  23. Anonymous13/6/18

    EODSA recently sent a letter to ERSL advising that it is taking away the operation of the DCL and DDL competitions and will operate these themselves. This will drive up costs for the remaining ERSL divisions (U13 - U18 Regional and District). Why did EODSA not inform its own members of this? Why is it hiding this from its members? Have the clubs who are controlling the EODSA advised their own members that their cost to play U13 and up will increase significantly next year as a result of their clubs' actions? These people need to resign from the EODSA board.

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  24. Anonymous13/6/18

    Lets all just come together for 2026

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous17/6/18

    Anyone else find it ironic that OSU is suing Russell Shaw for "stealing" players from them? Disgusting people over at OSU.

    What's also sad is that WOS has been in bed with OSU on the whole OPDP lie.

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    1. Anonymous17/6/18

      What they're doing is disgusting. Shame on OSU, JL, BM and anyone who enables them by giving them their money. That includes the people at the City of Ottawa re: George Nelms.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous18/6/18

      It's really a joke. Russell is one of the nicest guys I know and a phenomenal coach. It's quite normal that players would normal gravitate towards him. I don't believe Russell would go out of his way to steal players, they just normally go towards him.

      All clubs try to steal players from each other, we shouldn't make a big deal of it.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous18/6/18

      Everyone knew where he went, and anyone who liked playing for him could make their own decisions about where they want to play. It's ironic that the one club with the worst reputation for stealing players (phone calls, e-mails, arranging "chance" run-ins with parents,...) is accusing anyone of "stealing" players. Shame on anyone who supports OSU's behaviour by paying fees to them. I encourage you all to ask at the next AGM how much money goes out in "consulting fees" and to whom. Then you'll have your answer about why they're doing this.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous18/6/18

      I don't think they'll get an answer - they'll get walked out of the AGM. But yes, it will give them an idea of what's going on behind the scenes.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous20/6/18

      I disagree on the "all clubs try to steal players from each other, we shouldn't make a big deal of it"... at a low level, sure ok. It is one thing if players are interested in a program, perhaps from seeing their teams play, or even being given some information regarding it is fine. Clubs shouldn't be actively recruiting players to the extent that OSU does (eg scouting at non-OSU U9-12 games). When a parent asks "how did OSU get my email address?" there is some creepy stalking going on. Remember, we are dealing with young children here!

      Also, asking someone if they are interested in participating in a program is different than intentionally manipulating playing opportunities in a league to prevent some teams from playing at their proper level in the hopes of "getting their players". And then actively calling the parents of top players on those teams (based on the creepy scouting of U9-U12 players mentioned previously). If you have to pressure or manipulate a youth player to play for you, you have a serious problem.

      Russell should be able to switch clubs much like anyone else can switch jobs, and if players follow him through their own volition, there is nothing wrong with that. Happens all the time.

      OSU is disgusting and my children will never play there.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous20/6/18

      It's definitely a little offputting seeing JL and PH standing there watching your kid's game when they aren't even playing against OSU. A couple of times OSU was playing on the next field and they didn't watch one minute of their game - just ours. No shame.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous20/6/18

      Honestly, I have no problem with them watching the game for a bit to see how it's going, how the other clubs' teams play and interact as a whole. For a TD, that's certainly not an unreasonable thing to do if you are in the dome anyway, and it can be a positive thing. I think it crosses the line when you are off to the side with a notebook out taking notes on what you see. Any decent coach can see the strategies being employed on the pitch at the U9-12 level without taking notes. It's not rocket science! The only reason you'd need to take notes is if you needed player specific info. And again, it's one thing to come up to a parent or player and say you like how they played - that's positive. Directly asking them to switch clubs (or phoning them later to do so) - that crosses the line.

      Of course all of this is just my opinion, but to me it speaks volumes about the culture of an organization. If your focus is on development, parents will want their kids there and you'll have the right players interested. There should be no reason to manipulate the league, parents, players etc if you are offering the best learning environment. Youth soccer should be a positive experience, especially if we want to reduce the dropout rate, so if the adults involved can make their interactions positive and above board in all situations, that is the best thing for the kids and for the game.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous20/6/18

      They go to fields in the summer, so it's not a matter of happening to be at the dome. I could possibly understand if the TD wanted to see how others are playing, but there is no reason for JL to be there.

      Just like they do with those VWC id camps they host. Invariably, VWC will tell you they think your kid is really good, but if you want to make sure they are able to identify him, you need to move to OSU. VWC can GTH.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous20/6/18

      Guys, honestly, let's be serious for a moment. Do you not think it's appropriate for an OPDL club to know all the good players in the Ottawa region? Don't you think that TFC knows all the good players in GTA for each age group? Don't you think Vaughan SC knows? Don't you think The Impact knows all the Montreal kids?

      OSU needs to know who are the best players in the region, so does Sanjeev, so does WOS and probably Cumberland as well. Scouting is part of the game, it's like that all over the world. Don't make a big deal about it, it's normal for big clubs to know the best players in their region.
      And quite frankly, I think it's OK for them to approach parents if they so wish to do. You can always say no, and don't call/email me again!

      Delete
    10. Anonymous20/6/18

      I think you're overestimating the level of the OPDL. No one, other than OS provincial team scouts, follows it. And the OS provincial team is only 2 games, so meaningless - it's nothing more than a way for OS to support OPDL clubs, which they see as a cash cow (word from word from someone at OS). OS is desperately trying to do anything they can to generate interest from even Canadian universities, which should give you an idea of how little interest there is in that league. Why do you think they had to combine the U16 and U17 age groups? Because kids are leaving at those age groups after realizing that no one important gives a crap about the OPDL.

      I'm very familiar with the U13 age group here in Ottawa, and I can honestly tell you that none of the top players from the region are playing OPDL (I'm talking about the top 8 - 10 players). If those kids are better than the rest of the local players at their age group (and these would be kids who are significantly better than the rest), why on earth would they move to OPDL? Only if you can make an argument that they are better in spite of not playing in the OPDL. To make it worse, the take-up for OPDL in the rest of Ontario is even worse than here.

      To compare OPDL clubs to TFC and IMFC is laughable. There's a reason TFC is leaving OPDL and IMFC is already playing where TFC is moving to.

      I frankly couldn't be bothered when OSU calls, because I know my kids are getting far better training than they can offer, and I know that they don't care about my kids' development, but rather about what my kids' might do for their reputation.

      Delete
    11. Anonymous21/6/18

      I don't think it is unreasonable for an OPDL TD to be generally aware of good players in the region. I am not a TD and I am aware of good players on other teams as are the kids. None of us take notes on players or search up their parents' phone numbers and email addresses.

      Remember that we are talking U9-12 kids that are being considered "talents". Really all that matters at that age is that the kid is athletic, genuinely interested in soccer, immersed in a situation (program, parents whatever) where they are exposed to good content, and that they are willing to put in the effort to practice what they learn. Under U12 (and especially under U9) the emphasis should be on skill development not talent selection. Some kids learn faster than others, but a "talent" at U9 could be surpassed by some other kid at U11 who is passionate but developed that passion a bit later. That is especially true if the U9 "talent" burns out.

      The scouting and poaching treats the kids as "talents" at a time when they can be changing dramatically. It is much better for the kids to stay in a program where they are already learning than be pulled from that to be on "the best team". OTOH, if parents are not happy with how their child is learning, they will probably seek out a better option without any "scouting" or creepy stalking required. A club that offers a great educational environment should be attractive to parents, and I know that is how Jason deVos wants the system to work. Programs should be competing on educational quality, not scores in the league. Top players are developed over time, not born that way.

      The other thing is good coaches want good opposition in terms of players, programs, coaches, as it makes games more useful learning experiences. Poaching to hurt other programs runs counter to this.

      Delete
    12. Anonymous21/6/18

      This is a self defeating practice from many people here in Ottawa and probably in TO as well:

      - I like the training my daughter/son is getting at my non-OPDL club or academy, so I won't join OPDL.
      - As a result OPDL is not as top level as it should be, because not all top players in it.
      - Scouts pay less attention because the OPDL league is not as good as it should be.
      - But my daughter/son plays in the local regional league that is even less scouted, even lower competition, and nobody literaly gives a crap about...

      Conclusion? self defeating practice.

      If your kid is a top level player, take him to an OPDL club, make the league better. If you hide your kid in a regional league, the result will be even worse. I believe that's what Jason de Vos wants as well.
      I don't understand why kids stay at Futuro, Hotspurs past U13. Do they get good training at Futuro? Yes, of course. Do they get the same level of competition than OPDL? Not even close. Don't even try to argue that, it's not argueable.

      by hiding your kid from OPDL, you're making the league worse, but you're not getting any benefit from staying in the regional league either. It's truly self defeating. It's the definition of insanity.

      I could understand somebody staying at KNSA, they compete in the OASL (old SAAC), they compete with TO teams. I'm not sure how good that league is, but there's certainly academies in the OASL that know what they're doing.

      TDs from non-OPDL clubs should be sending their best kids to OPDL clubs, not hide them. What's the purpose of the Futuro 05 team playing in the ERSL Regional league? It's a joke right? Those kids should be in the OPDL, making the league better.
      Don't give me the old tired speech that OSU, WOS and Cumberland have poor training. That's not true. The people working at those 3 OPDL clubs know what they're doing, it's simply not true to suggest otherwise.

      Delete
    13. Anonymous21/6/18

      You are absolutely right about "non-OPDL clubs should be sending their best kids to OPDL clubs"; in similar manner small community (cultural) clubs or small neighbourhood clubs are forced to partner with larger established clubs with youth programs locally. Except that, as in real life, soccer is NOT detached from real life. In real life class movement / social ladder should not be stagnant. (a) If you are such a club at the pinnacle of royal "upper class" in soccer, then provide the lower classes incentive(s) to send their best kids up to them; don't just expect t out of privilege! And (b), If a "lower class" club/academy capitalizes on revolutionary opportunities, let them join those upper classes and work to be there. Neither is happening nor is the discussion of partnerships or incentives. Mar-a-lago has clear entry requirements.

      Delete
    14. Anonymous21/6/18

      The OPDL is a crap design as a program. Absurdly expensive for clubs, especially ones outside Southern Ontario. Best to let it collapse so something else can emerge.

      Delete
    15. Anonymous21/6/18

      To the one who said none of the top 8-10 are not with a OPDL club. Didn't a young man from Cumberland play for the Danone team? Is he not top ten?

      Delete
    16. Anonymous22/6/18

      He seems to be playing regional.

      Delete
    17. Anonymous22/6/18

      There were a few families who left Futuro last summer and not one has been happy with the new training environment. Some have returned, but others either burned bridges or are embarrassed to return at this point - but all have agreed that they made a mistake. For people to simply assume that the training is the same just because those clubs play in the OPDL is baseless. Talk to people who have been at both if you want to hear the truth. I'm not saying that the coaching is poor at those other clubs, but it isn't at the same level. The ERSL is definitely a weak league, but OPDL is not a very strong league. To pass up a better training environment for the sake of a handful of games against good teams is not in any player's interest - those competitive games are made up for through friendly games against out of town teams.

      OASL is a shambles and a number of academies are looking to pull out. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that should play out by the fall, if not sooner. You shouldn't make assumptions about it if you haven't actually watched the teams play. For example, the BCN U13's are entering the second tier of a local tournament next month - because that's where they feel they belong, regardless of the fact that they play in the OASL.


      The best players should be playing against the best players, but not at the expense of giving up a top level training environment. Only some form of pro/rel can achieve that.

      Delete
    18. Anonymous22/6/18

      The boy you guys are talking about from Cumberland played against my kid's team last week in an ERSL game, so he seems to be playing ERSL. Good player.

      Delete
    19. Anonymous22/6/18

      Futuro regularly has players in Danone. A number of OSU players making selection phases in Danone this year were also former Futuro players.

      There was a comment re KNSA offering better competition than Futuro. KNSA is great, but, the reality is that Futuro 2001 did play in SAAC last year, and the only other local competition that was in SAAC at the time was KNSA. Both meetings the Futuro team was significantly stronger. As I understand it from talking to parents, the reason Futuro teams aren't participating in SAAC (OASL now) is that the travel is extensive for a small number of better games. Futuro 2001 went undefeated in the SAAC spring season. Like OPDL, it is a lot of travel. What we really need is 1 league for top teams from academies and clubs, and maybe more of an east/west divide to reduce travel. Or an allowance to play Quebec AAA teams in a league. If there are national standards for programs, these things could be possible.

      Some parents are overly concerned with competition. Yes, sport is about competing, but the importance of the league is often overstated. I think it is a hockey mentality or something here. The most important competition is in training. Being in the right training environment is everything.

      Delete
    20. Anonymous22/6/18

      Ian Duncanson at EODSA seems to be trying to push the idea of some sort of EO/WQ regional league. Haven't see anything about it, just ERSL gossip so far.

      Delete
    21. Anonymous22/6/18

      A single competitive league for youth and adult ages. Though according to rumours it is not up to the EODSA to approve such a league.

      Delete
    22. Anonymous22/6/18

      The idea of the combined EO/WQ league is in part what drove AS Gatineau to enter some of their teams in the ERSL. But Hull (now called FC Gatineau) and Aylmer didn't see it as a concrete solution longer term. Even AS Gatineau only entered teams that are relatively weak - any stronger teams chose to play in the LSL AA league.

      I think the ideal solution is to allow Ottawa teams to play in the LSL AA and Quebec AAA leagues, but I get the sense OS won't go along with it because it would kill off OPDL here in Ottawa. But if you are serious about player development and having the best players play against the best players, the Quebec leagues are the way to go (it would just mean that the best players in Ottawa are playing against the best players in Quebec; demanding that the best players in Ottawa play against the best players from the rest of Ontario isn't in the interest of player development, but politics).

      Delete
    23. I always wondered why separate association, league for kids and league for adults. Now, having witnessed the complete --nepotism & oligopoly-- hostile takeover of the EODSA board; thank "the hand of God" it is that way as a natural oversight body to keep checks and balances in this member based parliamentary organization. So yes, politics all around starting with bullyish action of large clubs. As someone said before, in a carrot and stick situation they are using the stick option and leaving everyone else out. Didn't the large clubs want to leave anyways? Why don't they? aaahh conundrum, they need OS.

      Delete
    24. Anonymous22/6/18

      Why does Futuro have no teams above U14 this year for boys? Are they leaving for other clubs? If so, why?

      Delete
    25. Anonymous22/6/18

      When I was a kid in the 80's, Ottawa teams played Hull and Aylmer in the league. It was normal. Why does it need to be difficult now?

      Delete
    26. Anonymous22/6/18

      U14 is 2004. Futuro has a 2001 team. 2001 was the first year. 2002 disbanded years ago, I believe due loss of players to OPDL (when OPDL started?). I'm not familiar with the 2003 situation.

      Definitely this stuff (OPDP, OPDL, limitations on where one can play to reach provincial and national teams) is having a somewhat adverse effect on Futuro and other programs that are excluded. That is what those pushing this want. Really, good development programs should be celebrated and welcomed in any of the leagues. Futuro's U13+ teams should be playing in OPDL or an equivalent. That said, there are always options for suitable competition - the training is what is most valuable.

      Delete
    27. Anonymous22/6/18

      Exactly. And if OS is unwilling to allow them to play in what is considered a higher-level league in Ontario, then just give those kids the opportunity to play in Quebec. Many of those players and parents have a good idea of what's best for their development, whereas OS has no one on the ground here and has no clue about what's what in Ottawa. I can tell you personally that my kids are not leaving Futuro because I've seen first hand how the training compares to elsewhere, and if that means being overlooked for provincial teams, I couldn't care less. So if OS and the CSA want to overlook players who won't bend to their threats, that's OS's and the CSA's issue.

      Delete
    28. Anonymous22/6/18

      https://ersl.e2esoccer.com/ViewArticle.aspx?NewsID=1460

      Delete
    29. Anonymous22/6/18

      Ontario is a big province. Surely OS must recognize that. What do players in Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie, or Thunder Bay do?

      OPDL is made up exclusively of southern Ontario teams except OSU, WOS and Cumberland. Sure, there will be lots of good players developed in Toronto, but if you want a province-wide program, you kind of have to address the issues of travel distance. The current arrangement seems to be simply whatever was convenient for those living in "The Center of the Universe".

      Delete
  26. Anonymous18/6/18

    Word is that Ottawa is known to be THE biggest battlefield in Canadian soccer. Has a brutal reputation for infighting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous18/6/18

      That has been the case for years, almost from when the clubs starting merging. But something has changed now, it really feels like we are in a period of self-destruction.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous18/6/18

      It's not word, it's a fact. Ottawa soccer is all about who can screw each other the most. I don't think OSU is the only bad actor, there's plenty of bad actors. What they did to the OSU girls 06 team was discusting as well, especially if you consider Sanjeev had taken two teams to England, posted everything all over Facebook and nothing happened.

      Fighting over the best players is normal in every country in the world, it really shouldn't be a big deal. Certainly nobody should be getting sued over it, especially not a super guy like Russell.

      The only tragedy that could come out of this, is if Russell, out of frustration, would stop coaching. That would have real consequences for Ottawa soccer.

      Overall, Ottawa is producing good players, we have coaches and clubs that know what they're doing. Danone Cup this year has 3 OSU boys and 1 WOS boy selected into the final team. We must be doing something right, why do we have to self-destruct?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous18/6/18

      Two bads do not make a right. Fact is, one is intentionally meant to damage an individual and their livelyhood; the other a bureocrat's $500 rookie misunderstanding of the rules for academies versus clubs.

      Delete
  27. Anonymous18/6/18

    I'm not sure that nothing happened with the Futuro teams that went to England. Just because someone chooses not to publicize it, doesn't mean nothing happened. Remember, we're only talking about a couple of hundred bucks there.

    Russell should not be out of pocket one cent as a result of this, so I urge everyone to get together and help him out with this. This is not right. I have no problem for paying coaching fees - these guys/girls are on the field every night working with the kids and benefitting them beyond the sport. I do have a huge problem with paying fees when a significant portion goes into an administrator's pocket (or to his corporation), or when that administrator decides to use those fees to bully individual coaches like we're seeing here.

    If you look at the history of what some of these people have done, it is pathetic - George Nelms transaction; filing an appeal to try and prevent any kids registered with KNSA from playing in a local league; using an almost identical website name as the OFC out of spite because the OFC helped kids registered with KNSA play in the local league; spearheading the OPDP initiative;...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous18/6/18

      Exactly. If I have a kid playing at OSU, how does my kid benefit from them using my registration money to harass and bully an individual coach who is making an honest living and actually contributing to (other people's) kids' development? Have some respect for yourselves people, and stand up to these clowns.

      Delete
  28. Anonymous18/6/18

    You mean there is a lawsuit for a player leaving for another team? Is there a law against that? I don't get it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous18/6/18

      Yes, apparently JL feels it is taking food out of his kids' mouths.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous20/6/18

      OSU is suing a coach that moved to WOS and some players followed him. Insane!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous25/6/18

      Finally some coverage of this issue by the Citizen, and it confirms the rumour that had been floating around that this lawsuit was only intended to pressure WOS to back off of a complaint against an OSU coach who was suspended for 6 months for e-mailing dozens of families about moving there from WOS.

      I used to think that nothing OSU did could surprise me, but the fact that they would harass an individual making an honest living and file this type of lawsuit is pathetic and disgusting. Anyone who is willing to have their kids exposed to these types of people really need to reconsider their morals and values.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous25/6/18

      Out of curiosity, is there anything from OS or EODSA that the public can access re: who the suspended OSU coach is? Or his initials?

      Doesn't seem fair that they've tried to tie Russell's name to this type of behaviour (despite OS obviously not thinking he did anything wrong), while this OSU coach was found guilty but gets to keep his name out of the public?

      Delete
    5. Anonymous25/6/18

      Claire Ditchburn

      Delete
    6. Anonymous25/6/18

      That would have to be a breach of the PIPEDA by OSU. Given that the coach was found guilty by the EODSA and upheld by OS, there must be clear evidence in her case. My understanding is that the penalties to OSU would be very significant if a complaint were filed with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada (particularly given the number of people they contacted). Anyone know if anything is happening on that front?

      Delete
    7. Anonymous25/6/18

      Link to the article:

      http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-soccer-club-agrees-to-drop-200000-lawsuit-against-former-coach-emails-reveal-politics-behind-the-scenes

      The irony here is considerable. The same people from OSU calling for rules on player movement (eg "no active recruitment under U12") are the most aggressive recruiters in the city. When you attend games that your organization is not involved in, take notes, and call and/or email parents (such that parents wonder where you got their contact info from?), there is seriously something wrong.

      I do agree with them, there should not be active recruitment under U12. A little bit of parent/child driven freedom of movement is ok, but the coercive organization driven player movement is not healthy. I don't have a problem with some other coach or parent telling my kid they like how he/she played in a game, but what these guys are doing goes too far in my opinion.

      Delete
  29. Anonymous20/6/18

    Times have changed. Kids were not being poached at 9 in my day lol.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous22/6/18

    People say Futuro is such a great environment. I've seen many of their videos, and it's typical training that can be found elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous22/6/18

      Well, gosh, that is pretty definitive.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous22/6/18

      Some similar activities can be found elsewhere. Other activities are fairly unique. It can be hard to understand from just watching a short video. There is a higher emphasis on creativity, especially with young kids. New players from other programs usually do not immediately fit in very well from a technical standpoint but often make huge strides after an extended time in the academy. Most parents coming from elsewhere (including OSU) notice the difference in training style and also after a year or so, a difference in playing style of their kids. Check out the Futuro "Outplay World Cup" videos as an example of this creativity.

      Tactically, Futuro teams are usually very advanced (varies with age), but many parents have no idea really what is going on when they watch a game. That's why we have so many results-oriented comments here (eg "the score was close" etc). They can see a close score or even an upset and not realize that one team was playing simple direct soccer, and the other had tactical objectives that were a priority over scoring.

      That said, I think some other programs are trying to improve in a number of these aspects. Success can be more challenging in a big program, but that they are trying is fantastic. The more kids that can be developed the right way, the better.

      If you are interested in better understanding the Futuro training environment, why not bring your kid out to see what it is like?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous22/6/18

      I just think it is fun that City still promotes them...

      http://ottawacitysoccer.com/Default.asp?id=u912elite&l=1

      Delete
    4. Anonymous22/6/18

      Are you kidding? You watched a couple of videos?

      Delete
  31. Anonymous22/6/18

    The lawsuit has been withdrawn.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous23/6/18

    Not a fan of where Futuro train.

    ReplyDelete

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