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"For greater clarity" the exact targeted wording
[Hypocritical] b randing rules : " except for sponsorship branding " " sponsor may not be a soccer club, which is not recog...
[Hypocritical] b randing rules : " except for sponsorship branding " " sponsor may not be a soccer club, which is not recog...
Interesting documents. Note worthy:
ReplyDelete"Does not have the authority..."
"It's a separate legal entity..."
Just on those two an OCSL-ERSL merger could do without the EODSA. Invite the OutOuais... and you got a nice local league.
Does anyone know (and care to admit) what these big clubs' angle is here? Is it to take control of OCSL and ERSL, then impose conditions that will make it difficult for anyone else to participate in these leagues (thereby filling certain individuals' pockets)?
Delete“Does the Membership of the Ottawa Carleton Soccer League approve the transfer of the District Competitive Divisions from the OCSL to the Eastern Ontario District Soccer Association?”
DeleteHello,
Delete"A league shall(a) Be required to obtain permission from its governing organization to operate on an annual basis"
OSA approved?
All is quiet on the soccer front? Yes, any seed, alternative idea, wavering, indecision, etc. placed on anyone's mind, even if fringe, is a disruption of their agenda. ;)
DeleteWhat is the point of taking the comp divs? The EODSA say they want to take 'adult league' but they are only taking competitive?
Deletelol good luck with that.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to comment re a previous comment in the last (now closed) post re enrollment numbers being down province wide, and whether that is due to LTPD or OPDP.
ReplyDeleteOPDP is a local phenomenon, so if numbers are down province wide, it is not due to OPDP, but could be due to LTPD. That said, I don't think that should be the case, except perhaps for the scores and standings aspect. Ultimately, long term player development is good for players and all sports are going in this direction. I do think that this can impose extra hours on families in terms of training demands, but that should be expected at the higher levels.
When I look at other sports we are involved in, scores, standings, awards, and stats are used in sports that are more or less free of the politics we have in soccer. Additionally, the published results are not used against participants, but do help to stimulate achievement.
My feeling is that elimination of team based promotion and relegation in soccer is good, but elimination of scores and standings has taken part of being on a competitive team away from the kids. We should not shelter them from losing etc. It is part of the learning experience. So I wonder if some families drift off to sports that engage them more in this respect?
That said, I fully subscribe to not worrying too much about the result - ie coach to learn, don't coach solely to win. But coaching to win still happens all the time even without scores and standings.
Also should point out that the local players on the national team now were not impacted by LTPD. It has absolutely nothing to do with these players' success, which is more likely just a blip on the screen. To be honest, one of those player's development path has actually been contra everything LTPD stands for.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSorry, that was my comment. I meant OPDL, not OPDP. It has forced clubs to take resources out of other programs and pour them into a constantly increasing hole
DeleteUltimately, we should be striving to develop players over the long term, not just recruit and select those that happen to be strongest at a given age today (who were possibly developing well elsewhere).
ReplyDeleteI'm not convinced that "LTPD" as it has been implemented in soccer, in Ottawa anyway, has achieved this. In some cases yes. Others no.
Everyone seems to have a different idea of what constitutes "player development", so that figures into this. I would say particularly on the technical side, but also in terms of tactics.. Some of the guidelines from OS are not bad as a start, so not all is wrong, but the antics of some of the people running soccer in Ottawa are at times influencing player options and player movement.
I personally feel that coaches or TD's should be able to significantly self select playing level for their teams such that their players will experience appropriate competition for their playing level and learning objectives. There could easily be scores and standings, but that aspect can be downplayed with "coaching to win" addressed through some other means.
Regardless, Ottawa did not produce talent for a very long time until recently. It was pathetic actually. In Ottawa, you really have 4 choices: Futuro, OSU, WOSC and CUSC if you want to really develop very well. Barcelona is a joke. Nepean has some good kids, but they will need to move on sooner rather than later.
ReplyDeleteI would add KNSA to the 4 up there.
ReplyDeleteIs this the end of the ERSL?
ReplyDeleteHard to be a viable organization with less than half of the revenue. OCSL will see similar challenges.
DeleteOttawa TFC?
ReplyDeleteCumberland is ready to announce a partnership with TFC. They have called an SGM for the announcement.
DeleteArguably the club that has evolved (meaning going from mediocre to elite) the most in the last 10 years around these parts. An association with TFC is the last piece of the puzzle.
DeleteThe club evolved because the Technical Director is 1000 per cent dedicated to his craft and what is in the best interest of his athletes. That dude could be a pro coach somewhere.
DeletePavel and his group of czech coaches are fantastic! I'm always in awe of what they can do for their kids with much smaller resources than other local clubs.
DeleteCumberland is a great club which produces great young players.
That is cool if that is true. The more pro teams involved with Ottawa soccer, the better.
ReplyDeleteWord is that OSU and CUSC were the 2 better teams at U13 OPDL this year in men's. Someone is doing something right in those environments.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is why Futuro should be playing them. What a travesty to be playing in a regional league when they should be banging heads with the above teams. Does anybody know if they played the Montreal Impact Academy this year? TFC Academy? If so, how did they do?
ReplyDeleteMaybe St Anthony can get an OPDL license?
ReplyDeleteWhere would the money to run the program come from?
DeleteDon't parents pay for everything in OPDL, same as with Futuro? In any case, if OSU and Cumberland were among the stronger teams in OPDL, I wouldn't say that travelling to play most of the other teams would be worthwhile.
DeleteBetter than playing the Regional teams.
DeleteMarginally. And it some cases, not better.
DeleteParents don't pay for everything needed for OPDL, those programs are absurdly expensive and require a lot of 'overhead'. OSU spreads the overhead over all of their programs, but for all the house league stuff, it has nothing to do with them. St. Anthony's simply cannot do that.
DeleteAnything directly relating to soccer is paid for by the parents. The overhead costs are admin things, including all the paperwork OS requires. I personally see no value in the paperwork, as it adds nothing to player development and seems to be more of a make-work project. The system here is absurd when you consider that very few European clubs would meet OPDL's criteria. They far exceed the on-field and classroom development, but not the administrative or exclusionary criteria (written player feedback, having teams at both genders, limits on number of games,...).
DeleteThere's only 2 solutions for Futuro team parents/players if your kid stays in Ottawa:
ReplyDelete- Join the OASL league (old SAAC) and compete with top academies from TO
- Take your kid and join an OPDL club
Everything else you say is just noise: "could've, should've, would've! " and conspiracy theories.
Why not OASL? KNSA is there, at last Kevin offers a clear path for his kids. Why can't Futuro be there?
Don't like the travelling? If you have a kid who plays elite soccer in Canada, and you don't like to travel, you need to seriously rethink your son's/daughter's expectations in the sport.
Please stop with this never ending whinning about where Futuro should be or not be. They can be in the OASL... ask Sanjeev why you aren't. It's not WOS/CUSC/OSU fault.
Amen!!
DeleteCorner the (paying parents) market?
DeleteIn the past when Futuro has played KNSA teams, they've generally played against teams a couple of years older. They've also played some OASL teams and they weren't very competitive. Again, travelling to play many of those teams would be a waste of time.
DeleteTravelling to play elite teams is one thing, but very few of the OASL teams would be considered elite.
I think some posters here place excessive value on the competition itself. Yes the best teams should play the best, but quite frankly, what the kids are learning in a program is more valuable. Many teams that win a lot of games and would be considered strong opposition play a fairly simple direct game and are not necessarily learning all that much or are really that useful to play from a developmental perspective. I've seen parents leave Futuro (it is not the kids who want to leave usually) because they want better competition... New kids come in to fill the void and before long, they're stronger players than the kids who left. Of course there are all sorts of (perfectly legitimate) views on how the game should be played, but for those who value highly technical possession based soccer, Futuro is a goldmine.
DeleteSo I disagree with the suggestion that Futuro parents should move their kids to an opdl program if there is no oasl option at Futuro. And quite frankly it makes no sense at the younger age groups to travel frequently Toronto for competition. At some age groups it is not even allowed by OS.
Having kids who have played high level and trained with some European clubs, I can tell you that if a kid isn't at a very high level technically and tactically, they stand no chance over there. The long-ball direct play style isn't played by anyone over there any longer (not even by clubs you think might still play there). Any kid who has only really learned the direct style, regardless of how "successful" the team may have been in Canada, will never be able to adapt to European soccer. It is definitely much easier for a kid to go from a technical, possession-based system to one where long balls are played down the wings and crossed back in.
DeleteNot here to convince anyone of anything, just my two cents based on our experience.
I've actually been very surprised with the number of kids I've seen in the past couple of weeks who have returned to Futuro after having left. Quite a few of their team mates from those teams also seem to have followed them.
DeleteAnd vice versa. We all see Futuro kids come back to the OPDP teams as well. It works both ways. Often these are parents who think their kid is special. Reality is that 99.9% of these kids will never play a minute of pro football. I've also seen my share of "What do you mean my kid is not on the A roster?" and then proceed to pursue their dream at Futuro or elsewhere. Again, it goes both ways.
DeleteI was talking about kids at the older age groups - U15 and up. In talking to a couple of parents, they went because they bought into the OPDL pitch, but were less than impressed with things once they got there. I knew a couple of these kids were coming back, but was taken aback by all of the others. It's a pretty big influx all at once.
DeleteI also see a pretty big influx of U9-U12 kids leave Futuro/Barcelona for OPDP teams for various reasons. Plenty of "not impressed" folks as well. Again, works both ways....regardless of age.
DeleteBased on the registration, a lot of kids don't come back at all, they just go away and do something else.
DeleteYou would be surprised how many I have seen come back.
DeleteI don't think people realize just how many came back. Even more striking was the number of kids who followed these returning kids.
DeleteA comment from one of the parents about having left and returns was pretty telling - "at least we only lost one season".
Maybe some are coming back to Futuro/OSU/WOSC/whatever, but kids are leaving the sport at a disturbing rate.
DeleteLazy. The child is king these days. Also different times....busier parents etc...
DeleteIn the past 2 years? Garbage.
DeleteNo one is coming back; that's just someone trying the now legal stuff for the first time. The smaller market share of kids-parents-to-adult-soccer is why the OPDP is consolidating the stream, or rather getting rid of the competition (OCSL, ERSL, smaller oblivious clubs, and even the OSA) to corner that niche market. Seriously, you all have seen that "Anonymous" on this blog has been the only source of any semblance for information/vision/data; while the parent association is deathly quiet asleep on the ship. But that is the way you like it. Taekwondo, Ultimate, Rubgy is way, way better. See you next season when it's time to compare (publicly available) MMRS/website prices.
DeleteWhy are kids leaving soccer?
DeleteFees have been increasing much faster than inflation, and for most players the quality of the program is no better than it was. The benefit of mergers like Kanata/Goulbourn becoming WOSC and Royals/City becoming City are going to a small number of competitive players. Most families see a bigger bill to travel further for the same thing. Of course they leave soccer, or at least sanctioned soccer. Kanata SC used to own Kanata, now Kanata Dragons have to have close to as many rec players. OPDP just narrowed the circle one more step.
DeleteInteresting and thank you for your response. A wise man once said that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. That said, what is FUTURO doing to help increase soccer participation?
DeleteThank you.
I guess the question is what is ANYONE doing to increase soccer participation. Crickets at the EODSA despite two years of falling numbers. I guess they did manage to kill the futsal league, so that should help.
DeleteCorrect. If it's the same wise man I have in mind he also said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Exclusion (on the verge of segregation) at the field, on the board and on the back-room dealings is not the way to treat your fellow soccer enthusiasts & professionals. "Silence is complicity" said another wise person.
DeleteFuturo is a program for kids that can commit to an intensive schedule and have goals of playing at an elite level. It definitely is not trying to be all things to all people - I think it serves its target group very well. You can see this from its growing numbers and it is very noticeable this fall. Other clubs try to be all things to all people, so if Futuro's numbers are growing, but numbers overall in EODSA and OS are decreasing, then I think you need to ask why numbers are decreasing elsewhere, and what are OS and EODSA doing about it? Throw in the fact that EODSA has effectively been hijacked by 7 clubs, and I think you should be asking your question of those 7 clubs.
DeleteThe Futuro 2001s played in the SAAC league in 2017. Big TO academies underestimated them in the spring season playing them with a lot of underage players and got punished quite hard. This resulted in Futuro dominating the spring season.
ReplyDeleteFuturo had more challenging games during the fall season because some of the other academies learned from their spring season mistake.
At the end, I believe Futuro thought that SAAC was not much better than regional in terms of value for your money and did not repeat the experience.
Cost-wise, playing Futuro is more or less same as playing OPDL (although you likely get more for your money training/learning-wise but not necessarily competition-wise especially as the players get older). I suspect the bill was more salty for the 2001s that tried the SAAC league and Futuro did not want to do it with all teams after that. There is a limit to the amount of money families can allocate to soccer. The 2001s were willing to give it a try because they did not have any other compelling option in 2017.
My understanding re the SAAC fall season for the 2001 team was that the travel to Toronto on weekends in the school year was challenging. They did fine in the fall season, but this did impact their performance to some extent.
DeleteYeah, the team wasn't too keen on travelling to Toronto during school year, especially after a spring/summer season that they didn't feel was as competitive as they expected. And the only team that played with younger players was Sigma, whose teams all played up a year.
DeleteThey played McGill in a friendly and did ok considering the age and size difference. The 01s that is.
ReplyDeleteIf OPDL are to be taken more seriously, they need to stop waiting several days before posting scores....in today's day and age, there is no excuse for it.
ReplyDeleteAs for FUTURO, good club. They need more touches on the ball though a la Whitecaps or TFC academy. Monday to Friday with at least a CSA B running the practices.
Is it ok if it isn't part of a marketing agreement with an MLS club? Would it be ok if they simply train under their own name? Maybe with a CSA A coach (if the official license really manes anything)?
DeleteFirst time I've heard anyone say that the kids at Futuro need more touches.
I don't think that the posting of scores has any impact on player development. There are many, many other issues with OPDL, but updating scores on their website really isn't an issue.
DeleteCanadian MLS pro academies invest over $10,000 per year per player to provide them 5 or more training sessions per week and adequate competition. I don't know many families that could afford to fund that.
DeleteWhat a bizarre comment. Sanjeev is CSA A and is on the field coaching all the time. He is a workaholic! Our kids get heaps of time with him due to the reasonable size of the program. His other coaches are first rate also... And touches - Futuro is all about touches on the ball. And the academy motto is "Every day in every way" as in among other things (how you approach everything you do) that you practice every day. The best players in the world got there by training (in one way or another) outside of regular training sessions, and that is true of most fields. World class musicians spend hours and hours a day as children practicing for a couple hours of 1on1 lesson time per week. The ratio is easily 10:1.
DeleteWe live in too much of a spoon fed society. Kids need to learn do the grunt work themselves to make it happen. Showing up for training only takes you so far... Passion and work ethic is everything.
And the scores thing? Honestly, if you want to know how the game went, you need to watch it. Maybe they should post video highlights... But the score can be fairly meaningless in isolation, especially for young kids. I'm more interested in why the score is what it is I guess, but perhaps some programs just emphasize the end result? End result matters increasingly with level (ie train to compete stage and beyond), but as they develop, how they play matters more. Teams can achieve desirable end results early on at the expense of learning. Opdl spans a wide range of ages so perhaps this comment was aimed at the older kids... but still, I find too many parents put too much emphasis on the scores (I actually think we should not have "scoreless" games, but adults need to be able to be mature enough to see past the scores also)
Couldn't agree more. I would also point out that some of the "non-CSA A" coaches have phenomenal skill and are great in those sessions with the kids. But I know that my kids spend tons of time on their own, which is the only way a player will ever actually develop to a higher level.
DeleteI too am opposed to not keeping scores and always think about why the game went the way it did (if the problem was that they had a kid who looks three years older, well that's not an issue, or if the keeper happens to short, that's not really an issue at younger ages). But the comments about scores show that many parents can't get their minds around that.
Canadians do not train enough. Not enough hours on the ball with top notch coaching running the drills. Futuro included.
ReplyDeleteWhy are we even here? OK, we get Futuro is great! do you feel better now? Do you want to tell me how everyone thinks Futuro is great and nothing else is near that good. What's next? Seriously, you guys need so much validation and to put down everything else. I thought this forum was informative, but more and more it's all about if Futuro is the best. Seriously, I have made my choice and am happy with it, can we talk soccer now? My kid is not in competitive soccer to go pro, as so many pointed out in past, 99% of our kid won't. We put our kids in the sport for all the other values that come with competitive sport: Teamwork, brotherhood, value of hard work, winning/loosing, pride, accomplishment. That is what 99% of our kids will get, that is what you pay for. If you haven't understood that yet, I have been wasting my time reading you...
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% that most kids will never play professionally and that kids play competitive sports for various reasons. But there are kids (even in Ottawa) who have different goals as well. Even if it's only a dream at a younger age that will fizzle out over time - those kids will see benefits in all areas of life if they have the drive to work to achieve their dreams, if only until reality sets in at an older age (which I agree will be the case in almost all situations). Don't assume that someone's goal/dream is a waste of time because it isn't your goal.
DeleteI don't think anyone is saying there aren't other programs out there that are good. The issue that continues to be raised is the exclusion of certain programs from playing at (what is supposed to be) a higher level because they don't have the time or see the value in being bogged down in a ton of administrative paperwork. The fact that certain clubs won't play others is a perfect example of the toxic atmosphere in Ottawa soccer. You didn't seem to have an issue with the comment that Futuro should have a marketing agreement with VWC (like Gloucester does) or with TFC (like Capital United had) in order to properly develop players - the arguments go both ways, and the only way to put a stop to the bickering is to open up competitions so that teams at similar levels play each other.
I guess there are sometimes unusual comments re Futuro here, probably from parents not involved in the program. So that is probably why so much commentary re Futuro... Really, the healthiest situation locally for the sport is if we have multiple strong programs that emphasize education, play matches in a friendly competitive context, and generally celebrate the sport.
DeleteI'm involved in other sports where there are results and statistics posted for even really young kids, but people get it and don't make a big fuss about it. Like in an individual timed sport, you may be able to look at your lap times and say, ok so I faded - maybe I need to not start quite as hard next race or adjust my training to improve endurance, or whatever.. stats can be helpful if the adults don't abuse them. But in soccer, I see many adults (parents, coaches, administrators!) caring too much about scores of games, and usually quite poorly educated re the game itself. It would be like parents worrying about if their kid beat other kids in a timed sport rather than if they improved developmentally resulting in a better time (eg a pb). In every case, it should be about understanding "what could we do better" rather than go into dispair over a substandard result.
I've heard comments from parents who have kids that more or less dropped soccer saying that they found the local climate too wierd and overly political, even compared to hockey. So that should be the first thing local organizations should address if we want to keep kids in the game. Kids and parents only have so much time so they will gravitate to what works for them.
I don't believe much in those marketing agreement. as for open competition, I agree. I still have an issue with lopsided game (i.e.10-0) which I hope will be fixed with the club licensing program coming out nationally at some point. Good program should play similar program, everything else is a waste. Here's a reason for kids to drop out, lose all summer 10-0, I would not come back, no fun. So there has to be some sort of understanding of level of play.
DeleteIf the system is fair and open, with somewhat voluntary promotion and relegation, hopefully good coaches will have a reasonable understanding of their teams' playing level and will find a developmentally appropriate league option. It really goes both ways as winning all the time by huge margins is not helpful either (though there are things one can do in that situation to still challenge the kids).
DeleteCBC.ca: Canadian men's soccer needs more than just Alphonso Davies to be relevant.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/canada-mens-soccer-more-than-davies-1.4874265
Cooler heads need to prevail. Your technique is bigger than mine is child's play I jave mentioned before. Someone has to have "cojones" to come up with reconcialotory talk and consensus that addresses everyone's concerns. And for the leaders of all camps to back such proposals. I just want to see happy kids kicking a ball around ad-hoc neighbourhood festival without too much worry for affidavit A or affidavit B for the proper colour of a soccer ball. Someone else's worry might be proper certifivation on OPDL game night. Leaders lead for all.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with that. Futuro and OSU absolutely hate each other.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that will never happen - won't name the person, although everyone probably knows who it is, but he flat out said in a meeting they refuse to play certain teams in friendlies.
DeleteIt was the same thing between OSU and Ottawa Fury, when the Fury used to run youth teams that played in the Super Y League.
DeleteIf the Ottawa Fury really wanted to play the development game, they would crush all clubs in the city, including OSU. If only their billionaire owners would invest in a proper academy... but it appears the Fury is nothing but a total joke right now.
DeleteThey are not interested in anything development, actually they're not interested in anything soccer.
Sad!
I wouldn't blame the Fury entirely, because they scrapped their youth program to appease many of the local clubs, whose support they were seeking. They later did operate a couple of older youth teams, but that's already too late for development, so I don't think they saw much benefit to those teams. One club obviously won't support them regardless of whether they operate youth teams or not.
DeleteAll we hear about is how important it is that development be 'professionalized', so we should all STFU and pay more...meanwhile the actual professional game has minimal interest in any of it beyond co-marketing deals dressed up as development partnerships.
DeleteTrue, development needs to be professionalized and paid for. What is needed is new... no, wait... additional revenue streams to fund it. I am pretty sure I can find a lot of Old Timers who would love to pay say $2 + a beer to watch a a game at uOttawa. And at the same time allow/promote the allowed yet unsanctioned "play for fun" municipally sponsored game for those who cannot afford the "professionalization" registrations (at all ages).
DeleteSee https://goo.gl/4UjzfK --> Section 8, Procedure 1.3
Re OSU-Futuro, true their animosity seems to go back a long time. But the remaining 7 and all others Clubs are showing their distaste at bending to their exclusive wants at the expense of moving forward with smooth working with partner organizations (OSA, CSA). The district will not be taking seriously if they can't get their house in order.
Not sure what it means "to appease local clubs". They should want the best players from all Ottawa and surrounding areas in their youth teams. They are a professional club, they should just be a big bully here in the city. Just like TFC is in Toronto.
DeleteI find it amazing the level od stupid politics in canadian soccer... Fury are professionals, they should have a strong academy that attracts all the best players. End of story! Who cares what community clubs think.
If a kid from Tranmere Rovers academy is asked to join Liverpool FC academy, he will go, who gives a crap what Tranmere wants.
It's just total nonsense what happens in Canada.
Fury needed/needs the local clubs to encourage kids to go to the games, and if these clubs see the Fury as "taking their players", they'll instead try to discourage kids from going to Fury games. That was the reason for scrapping the academy teams, sadly.
DeleteApparently TFC is running a little tournament again where they invite OPDL and OASL teams and OSU '05's are invited. Anyone know how their games against Cumberland and WOS OPDL teams went this year? I assume the others weren't invited because they aren't as good?
ReplyDeleteOSU 05 lost 3 games in OPDL I believe, one of them against Cumberland.
DeleteOSU 05s have a kid who looks like an 02. Although no scores are posted, I've heard this particular kid scored close to 50 goals this season. (and the season is not finished yet).
Cumberland 05s and 06s as well are two very strong teams, not sure how they did in the remaining of the season. They did win 1 game against OSU 05s.
OSU 05s are actually a very good team to begin with, and with the addition of that particular "giant", it became almost invincible.
I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in the youth national teams soon, he really improved from being just big and strong to actually being a proper player, hence the 50 goals. Great work from OSU coaches on this kid.
Cumberland used to beat OSU at that age group regularly and is a much stronger team technically. Take the giant kid out of the equation and Cumberland will win 7/10 games for sure. Also, put him with kids his own size and I guarantee he doesn't score more than 1/10 of those goals.
DeleteCumberland (Now Ottawa TFC) have a very "train them since they can walk" culture. In short, they keep focusing on the kids that have been with them since U4...U5 and don't spend much time looking at getting players from other clubs. They teach a very pretty European style of play as opposed to the kick and run culture some other clubs have. The first touch, give and go, overlap and other important technical skills are engrained in them at a very young age. They play a very similar style to Futuro. I'm biased, but I truly believe those are the two best clubs in Ottawa for properly developing players. That said, you get out of it what you put into it. Give 200 per cent and the coaches will do the same.
ReplyDelete